SEN 694 - 22 Apr 2002

SCAT Electronic News 22 April 2002 issue 694

Table of Contents
Give Credit ....
America's Cup So Far ..
Alpha Puppy escaping over the fence? - Skykieng
Looking for Dale Kirn - Parker
Segrave's Hunches
More FF Marketing - Roll out the Roladex, or PP? - Jahnke
Gliding in the Park - Norton
Future of FF - Segrave
Today's SEN. - Segrave
Pictures of NZ World Cup events - Ackery

Give Credit ...

There's been lots of talk about juniors and the need to help and
promote. Off the top of head here are some people who do help ..

The BlackSheep Squadron for Delta Darts at the Pasadena IMS Show and
their other Junior programs.
George Batiuk, Brian Van Nest and Craig Gunder for the FAI FF sessions
for Juniors at the Nats.
The AMA and all those who $helped$ the US juniors go to Europe.
Art Ellis for the Eli Whitney Museum program.
Dick Baxter for the young Engineer program and the Pussycat.
Igor Vivchar for the Prima - an F1B designed for Juniors.
All those from Brokenspar to Lonnie Cope who helped out with the SO program
Who ever it is in France who got all those juniors flying F1A so the
French team for this years Eurochamps is all under 25 or is under 21 ?
Pera Kolic who got serious sponsorship for the Yugoslav Junior team.
Norm Furutani, John Morrill and Tom Laird who ran the indorr flying sessions
as part of the FAA summer aviation program at LAX.

.. so how do you help ?

America Cup results - with individual placings

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 16 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 32 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 19 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 Parker, Dallas (Jr) 34 SWR-4 MM-3
2 Spence, Steve 30 MM-1
2 Terzian, Fred 30 SCA-1
4 VanNest, Brian 29 SWR-1
5 Allnutt, Peter 25 MM-2
5 Zink, Don 25 SCA-2
7 Coussens, Tom 24 SWR-2
8 Brun, Pierre 20 SCA-3
9 Parker, Jim 19 SWR-3
10 McKever, Mike 15 MM-4
10 Kozlyuk, Dimitro 15 SCA-4
12 Limberger, Rene* 10 MM-5
12 Coussens, Ben(Jr) 10 SCA-5
14 Diez, Hector 9 SWR-5

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 15 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 40 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 9 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 Sessums, John 61 SWR-3 MM-2 SCA-3
2 Luken, Jim 30 MM-1
3 Batiuk, George 29 SWR-1
4 Fitch, Jerry 27 SCA-1
5 Rohrke, Rich 24 SWR-5 MM-4
5 Crowley, Paul 24 SWR-2
7 Morrell, Roger 22 SCA-2
8 Piserchio, Bob 21 SWR-4 SCA-5
9 Booth, Bill 20 MM-3
10 Wood, Dick 12 SCA-4
11 Davis, Evan 10 MM-5

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 10 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 22 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 7 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 Joyce, Doug 53 SWR-5 MM-2 SCA-2
2 Parker, Faust 30 MM-1
3 Poti, Norm 27 SWR-1
4 Happersett, Ken 26 SCA-1
5 Warren, John 22 SWR-2
6 Simpson, Roger 20 MM-3
7 Archer, Randy 17 SWR-3
8 Carroll, Ed 16 SCA-3
9 Perkins, Daryl 15 MM-4
10 Keck, Ed 12 SWR-4
11 Morris, Gil 11 SCA-4
12 Spence, Henry 10 MM-5
13 Gewin, Matt 6 SCA-5

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 19 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 25 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 7 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 Wood, Dick 51 SWR-1 MM-4 SCA-5
2 Emery, Jack 41 MM-3 SCA-2
3 Brocks, Peter 31 SWR-3 SCA-4
4 Cooney, Ralph 30 MM-1
5 Sessums, John 26 SCA-1
6 Davis, Bill 25 MM-2
6 Crowley, Paul 25 SWR-2
8 Critchlow, Bob 16 SCA-3
9 White, Bob 15 SWR-4
10 Davis, Mike 10 MM-5
10 O Reilly, Jim 10 SWR-5

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 8 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 15 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 11 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 McKever, Mike 50 MM-2 SCA-1
2 Cowley,Martyn 49 SWR-2 MM-1
3 VanNest, Brian 43 SWR-1 SCA-3
4 Busnelli, Ernesto 38 SWR-3 SCA-2
5 Smith, Norm 21 SWR-5 MM-5 SCA-5
6 Sifleet, Bob 18 MM-3
7 Zink, Don 13 MM-4
8 Brun, Pierre 12 SCA-4
9 Parker, Dallas (Jr) 11 SWR-4

Key to competition abbreviations and number of sportsmen:
SWR 7 Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM 18 MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCA 3 SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA

1 Poti, Norm 36 SWR-4 MM-2
1 Keck, Ed 36 SWR-2 MM-4
3 Carroll, Ed 31 SWR-3 SCA-3
4 Gutai, Bob 30 MM-1
5 Mennano, Guy 26 SWR-1
6 Laird, Tom 25 SCA-1
7 Warren, Ed 20 MM-3
7 Robertson, Tony 20 SCA-2
9 Parker, Faust 10 MM-5
10 Menanno, Frank 6 SWR-5

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

----------SOUTHERN CROSS CUP 2002

Please find following the results for the Southern Cross Cup which were
conducted at Narrandera NSW on the 2nd and 3rd of April 2002. The site was
in the same area as last years event, at Widgiewa a grazing property off
the Urana road approx 50 klms south east of Narrandera. The weather
conditions were reasonably good with temperatures ranging between 16-30
degrees C , and wind velocities ranging from 2-7 mtrs / sec. A flight line
was established using cone markers and did not need relocation for the
duration of the contest.Visibility was generally good, although on Wed 3rd
of April, 5 minute flights in the first round of F1B & F1C were going a
long way down wind and made timekeeping difficult. The "new" super max
system was implemented and caused some comment and discussion amongst
competitors. Some who thought they had "dropped" out of contention by not
achieving the extended max, and who flew consistently, were rewarded with
higher than expected results at the completion of round 7.
We also had the experience of competitors not achieving all 3 min maxes
, yet having tied scores . These ties were resolved by reference to the
additional time achieved in the "super max" first round as required in rule
3.1.8. b.

1st. Phil Mitchell AUS 180+60 180 180 180 180 180 180 1260
2nd. Vin Morgan AUS 180+36 156 115 177 180 180 180 1168
3rd. (ms) Jan Thomas AUS 137 180 180 180 180 84 180 1121*
4th.Brian Van Nest USA 180+60 180 180 180 180 101 97 1098
5th.Victor Stamov UKR 180 +56 81 127 180 180 180 92 1020
6th Mike Thomas AUS 180+60 180 180 51 180 118 68 957
7th. Vera Lacy AUS 180+39 151 180 180 57 125 59 932
8th. Jeremy Woolley AUS 47 180 106 180 176 107 120 916
9th. Mark Armour AUS (DID NOT FLY)

*( One for the Luddites: Jan Thomas was flying a straight tow Pink
Elephant, who said stick and tissue was dead?)

1st.Igor Vivchar UKR 180+120 180 180 180 180 180 180 1260 + 120
2nd.Andrei Khrebtov RUS 180+117 180 180 180 180 180 18O 1260 + 117
3rd. Alexandr Shelepov RUS 180+92 180 180 180 180 162 180 1242
4th.Bryan Oliver AUS 177 180 180 180 180 180 165 1242
5th.Richard Blackham AUS 180+120 180 180 152 180 180 180 1232
6th.Don Blackham AUS 180 + 72 180 180 180 18O 180 152 1232
7th.(ms) Leigh Morgan AUS 180+ 1 180 180 148 176 180 180 1224
8th. Peter Sikora AUS 180+53 178 161 180 180 102 180 1161
9th. Bill Pudney AUS 160 180 18O 147 105 0 121 893
10th. Terry Bond AUS 180+120 166 180 (RETIRED)
11th. Brian Van Nest USA 180+79 180 99 (RETIRED)
12th Sergio Montes AUS 76 119 116 142 28 (RETIRED)


1st. Roy Summersby AUS 180+68 180 116----------476
2nd. Dave Thomas AUS 180+120 115--------------295
3rd William East AUS 180+98-------------------180


1st Roy Summersby 180 180 180 ---------540
2nd Col Somers 117 168 180 ---------465
3rd Des Slattery 107 103 84 ---------294


1st Peter Sikora 180 180 180 ----------540
2nd Mark Armour 180 158 180 ----------518
3rd Col Somers 101 180 180 ----------461
4th Karen Kenmir 95 180 180 ----------455
5th Bill Gordon 180 --------------------------180
6th Terry Bond 124 16 --------------------140

Alpha Puppy escaping over the fence?
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Potent Puppy left unleashed?

Seems Don Simkins has the idea that folders would be allowed for the Puppy
class. Not so, The minimum area and span limitations lock that otherwise
open (swinging) gate.

But a Potent Puppy is still ignored and left unleashed to clamber over a low
spot in the fence; its name is "Flapper."

I can't believe the rules don't simply state, "No Flappers" .... assuming
the basic idea is to keep things simple.

Yes, the flapper concept is somewhat handicapped without the aid of an
auto-stab working in conjunction with the flap's changing incidence angle,
but it can be done via some delicate aerodynamic balancing employing a
forward c.g. (simple) or pulling out the stops and changing camber by
raising the hinge line rather than deflecting the flap from the
hinge.(challengingly complex) Wish I was a Junior. (Oh, hell, that's
bravado b.s. ... I can't even handle being a Senior.)

Groan. Billious G.

Looking for Dale Kirn
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I'm trying to find Dale Kirns email address or his residentual address or
telephone number the reason is a quest for reeds for .049 cox space
hoppers.. is there anyone out there that has brand new rees for space
hoppers too...If so please hit me back at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., Regards,
Clay Parker

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

A brief follow-up to Peter King's thoughts on marketing free flight...

Why should it just be the 'best looking guys' in those opening film shots?
Why not the characterful faces as well? Why not Peter himself? This is the
guy (and he knows this because I sent him the press cutting) who was once
described in a glowing review in the The Guardian as a saxophonist 'lean,
sleek, faintly baleful, and rather resembling a Mafia hitman'. Let's go for
drama, not just the hunky guys.

More seriously, I'm inclined to the view that free flight will indeed die
with the generation now in its 50s and 60s. My mind keeps going back to
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. It's that bit after the double hit on
the train and the long chase across country. (Remember 'Who are those guys?'
and 'I don't know where we are but it sure as hell ain't Oklahoma...'?) They
meet up with an ageing sheriff and he sums up their situation with awful

"It's too late. It's over. Don't you get that? Your time is over..."

Well, it's not over for us yet, not by a long way, but I fear it's going to
have serious and maybe terminal problems after another 10 or 15 years. Let's
enjoy what we've got.

I hope you don't mind another film reference. There was a splendid response
when someone mentioned the excellent The Flight of the Phoenix a few months
ago, so I thought another one would probably be acceptable. The guy who
wrote Phoenix also, incidentally, wrote The Quiller Memorandum (though under
a different name), a complex but intriguing cold war thriller filmed in 1966
with, amongst others, George Segal and Alec Guinness.

I know it was the same guy because years ago, when the world was young and
so were we, I met a relation of his, young and female, and there was a
memorable night on the seashore, in the warm summer air, under the Essex

Ah, memories.

Best wishes to all and particular thanks to you, Roger, for all your work on


Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

For some time now, I have had a nagging feeling of unease concerning F1P.
That's apart from all the views already aired. Something did not seem to be
copacetic as we say in America, something which disturbs me about why this
class was foisted on us so suddenly. I have read that
Pimenoff was concerned about gears but don't know whether this concern was
there before the famous Sifleet letter or not. However, taking these two
items together, and since no-one had come forward with EXACT details, I
propose the following possible/probable scenario:

Pimenoff some time before was going to spring a ban on gears on the March
meeting, just like F1P was done, but the salvos of outcries and broadsides
of criticism from mainly American modellers in SEN rather spiked his guns so
he changed to plan B and thus we got F1P sprung upon us - as a substitute.
Is that anywhere near the truth? I wonder.

In a continuing search for the truth, the following. I don't know what was
in these famous letters (Sifleet's and Pimenoff's reply) but it seems odd to
me that a well known modeller of long standing and experience and who
should know that rule changes are made as proposals from each Aeroclub to
the CIAM, should write DIRECT to the President when the usual channels were
open to him. Very strange!! This leads me to speculate that someone put him
up to it? No??? Then what? and why? You only go to the top man when you
don't get satisfaction at the lower levels. Or is there more to this behind
the scenes that we don't know about? Regards Mike S

More FF Marketing - Roll out the Roladex, or PP?
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


Graham Bryant is correct, flying fields are in short supply. Peter King is
correct too, golf is inherently boring to watch, but creative presentation
has made it appealing to the masses. Have you noticed that there is no
shortage of golf courses?

It is fun to play these verbal games with each others SEN comments but often
ideas go no farther. Here is a practicle suggestion: Search your rolodex
for a friend, colleague, or student in the field of marketing. Explain our
idea and see what they suggest. I have tried (so far unsucessfully) to get a
marketing student at my university to write a research paper for the sympo.
One of us (especially one well connected Balsa Bug) should be able to find
some help. Remember NFFS is now a 503c tax deductable non-profit, deserving
of some pro-bono services.

Meanwhile, make sure you dress well and shave before you head to the field -
image is important.


Gliding in the Park
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


I don`t know about the other guys, but I`ve yet to go to a public
park to glide test a new model that the minute it hits the ground, there are
several kids that want to know where I got the model and how much it cost.
Surely this is a source. In the past, I`ve given a mini seminar on free
flight and how it works. It occurs to me that this is an overlooked source
of new blood. But, bear in mind that these kids have to be spoon fed,
driven to flying sites ( after convincing the parents that you are not a
child molester, or worse, Catholic priest ) . Yes, it takes effort, but
what worthwhile enterprise doesn`t.

bob norton

Future of FF
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Let's jump ahead 30 or 40 years. Most if not all of the current FF modellers
will be dead. If there is no movement to promote the sport, then it will be
dead,too. There might be a small following holding on , but lacking the
older guiding force, that is very unlikely.
So we have a barren space. Now we are told that nature abhors a vacuum. If
so, and with the entrepreneurs rampant, someone will surely rediscover Free
flight and maybe do a better job than we have done to found a society which
has solid basis constructed much after the lines of the football leagues we
have at present, with a pinnacle and a grassroots to draw upon, and financed
adequately with publicity in all the major (and others) mediums regularly
thhroughout the year. Compare that with us at present. You like what you
see? Regards Mike S

Today's SEN.
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

First, it's a pity Hardy stopped reading, for there was a fine tribute to
him therein!
Secondly, Peter King's comments on the future. When Bill Pettigrew was
making "180 is Max", I was asked to Montreal to view the "rushes". The staff
at the National Film Board of Canada who made the film made an interesting
comment. "do the planes fly out of sight each flight, and do you use a
second and third and so on for the succeeding flights?" They were reassured
that the planes were brought down after a predetermined time so that they
could be used for the succeeding flights. They also remarked on the beauty
of the event and the apparent camraderie and teamwork and that these W/C
attracted such a wide diversity of men from so many different countries.
On the point of going out of sight, I thought later that a small clockface
inserted in the corner from time to time as the flight progressed to show
elapsed duration might have been an added insight. This is in line with part
of what Peter has said. Also, generally he is on the right track in my way
of thinking. What comes out of the various messages to SEN, generally, on
the subject of the future of FF and the present lack of young members,(as it
seems to me) is a feeling very difficult to put into words. It is as if
there is a certain contentment, a feeling of lethargy,an unwillingness to
look ahead? It's very hard to put into words. It seems that some seem
surprised, mildly,as if they were just awakening from a siesta. Can't get
any closer than that for the moment. Regards Mike S

Pictures of NZ World Cup events
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Some pictures of the World Cup events in New Zealand can be seen at,

David Ackery

Roger Morrell