SEN 704 - 27 May 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 27 May 2002 Muncie issue 704
Table of Contents
=================
Muncie Editorial Comments
Thanking Landowners - Jahnke
Muncie landowners - Kerr
Great Grape Gathering, Geneseo NY, June 14/16 - Barbeque. - Moseley
Muncie as 2 Minute Field; Middle Wallop and Farmers - Myers
blue foam and CST
Muncie land owners re: Gil and the Avallones - The Alien
Mike S - Montes
FREE FLIGHT FORUM REPORT EDITOR SUFFERS TEMPORARY BRAIN DEATH - Dilly
Confusion of canine terminology. - Skykieng
UGL Contact Cement - Terzian
UHG - Parker [and Ghio]
Two minutes at Muncie is not the answer... - Shailor
Muncie Madness - Donde
flyer beware. - Wilkinson
Thanks
Muncie Editorial Comments
=========================
There are many comments about Muncie and Free Flight in this issue.
A few more remarks ...
Clearly the AMA is aware of the situation and are sympathic to
all Model Aviation disciplines. I understand that they would like
to buy more land adjacent to the current property to make it a
better site and the Free Flight is one of the major considerations.
There are some irresponsible Free Flighters who have driven their
bikes across farmers property damaging crops. I did see a photo
of a Fat Cat line up at Muncie that showed more Cats than we see at Lost
Hills. Have ridden a Fat Cat, it is not a very maneverable bike
and will plough a head through just about any vegetation.
A clear issue with Muncie is the number of events, because of the lack
of other sites there are probably more serious Free Flight events at Muncie
that any other site in the US. This means that the AMA's PR
guys would have a full time job in shmoozing the local farmers and
the landowner would have a lifetime supply of fruit.
Thanking Landowners
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Roger,
I read with dismay the story of the Avallone's smashed glider. I was
further dismayed by Gil Morris' reply. Oddly both Anthony and Gil are right
in their approach. Anthony rightly is pressing charges for an act of
vandalism worth many hundreds of dollars. Who would argue if it was his car
that was vandalized instead of the model. however, Gil is right too. If
people trespassed repeatedly on your property then prosecute you when you
return the insult, you can bet that the anger will be long lived and wide
spread. so what do we do?
Several seasons ago a friend or mine had a model fly well off the field.
His approach to the landowner should be a model for us all.
1. He went to the house and spoke to the owner, and was granted permission
to look for it.
2. After retrieving the model he spoke to the owner again, thanking them
for permission to trespass.
3. He called his office manager back home and instructed her to overnight a
gift basket to the property owner, with a second thank you.
Often we feel the pressure of making the next round, and feel the anguish of
loosing a well trimmed investment of our time and money. These feelings
give us the sense that a walk through someones field is rather insignificant
by comparison. But the owner, who depends on that land for income, sees you
and your model in a very different way. And often they see you and eight or
ten others every round for two days. If you have ever owned land in a rural
area frequented by hunters, snowmobilers, motorbike riders, hikers, bird
watchers, teenagers, etc. you will understand.
Here are some proactical suggestions.
1. The AMA or NFFS should be prepared to compensate farmers for crop
damage, or to pay a nominal fee to the neighbors before contests (this
suggestion will fall on deaf ears however).
2. AMA should alert the neighbors before contests.
3. Modelers should be supplied with home addresses and phone numbers to
alert the neighbors when they need to trespass. they should also be
prepared to miss a round to get permission (this too will fall on deaf
ears).
4. Modelers should at least send a thank you note to those persons whose
land they used to retrieve models. Instead of creating ill will this will
show that we respect their property as we would expect them to respect ours.
The can of worms is open...
Ross
Muncie landowners
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Muncie Landowners - I believe Gill Morris is on the correct track in
holding flights to 2 minutes max. AMA should consider supplying gifts to
the landowners outside of the AMA facility. In other words, soft money as
the politicians get. You would be surprised as what that can do. We have
experience success with this tactic, with a few bottles of wine at
Christmas in our area. I would also like to see AMA discontinue the
growing of soy beans on Muncie property.
I would like to know what Free Flight revenue is, compared to the other
events. (RC - CL) Tom Kerr
Great Grape Gathering, Geneseo NY, June 14/16 - Barbeque.
=========================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
To all those attending the GGG at Geneseo .....
We need a preliminary indication of numbers attending the barbeque at
the Cresthill Motel on the evening of Friday June 14th (rain date Saturday)
as a prior notification of quantities required has to be advised to the
caterer on Monday June 10th. so that sufficient chicken portions may be
ordered.
The meal is half chicken with rolls, coffee and two other dishes (beans and
salad) for $7.00. However, the caterer is now offering their special
"Friday Fish Fry" as an alternative choice. Tickets will be sold at the
field until noon Friday 14th but once the 'chicken order' is fulfilled all
other sales will be plainly marked 'fish fry'.
Please notify Jim Anderson, by Sunday June 9th latest,if you will be at the
barbeque and advise him of choice(s) requested.
Jim Anderson This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ... by June 9th, remember?
For details of GGG F/F events: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
SAM R/c : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Muncie as 2 Minute Field; Middle Wallop and Farmers
===================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Midwest fields are small, and despite the huzzahs about Muncie from the AMA,
I've not been tempted to make the long haul from California to fly there; and
now the story about the neighbor who sliced up a straying FF model makes it
even less attractive.
That said, there are a couple of things that could help (adapted from what
I've observed and seen at Middle Wallop when I've gone over there to fly).
Some SAM 1066 events are flown at Middle Wallop with "no score" if the model
lands off the field. That encourages flyers to set their DTs according to
wind conditions.
Some groups using Middle Wallop make it a habit to go around and work with
the local farmers--a fruit basket at Christmas for example in appreciation
for tolerating modelers traipsing through their crops. A little bit of
"public relations" at Muncie with the adjacent landowners might be a good
idea.
Increased use of Walston retrieval bugs would help---that way the modeler
goes straight to the model without having to tramp all over the field (or
through the corn) to get to the model.
The fact of the matter is that you ARE trespassing when you go on someone
else's property to retrieve your model--and even if the landowner is a jerk,
the modeler is in the wrong when he goes on the property.
I'm told that the Sepulveda Basin FF site was lost, in part, due to an
altercation in the early 70s between a now dead modeler (I won't mention his
name) and an adjacent landowner. The modeler didn't like the way that the
landowner had treated his 12 year old son who' d retrieved an errant model.
He threatened to "whup" the landowner. A complaint went to the city, and
presto chango, the field was lost to FF.
Mike Myers
blue foam and CST
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi, I am looking for CST's web address. I cannot find the sources on
the site either. Thanks, Jock
[try www.cstsales.com ]
Muncie land owners re: Gil and the Avallones
============================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I was sorry to read about the F1H glider incident that the Avallones
experienced at Muncie.
Unfortunately the destruction of this glider was as Gil says, probably
out of frustration. It sounds like the same people that I have had
several dealings with. (I am assuming the farm off the east side of the
field with the long driveway). Fortunately I was able to retrieve my
model intact each time, with their blessing, because I showed respect to
both them and THEIR property. They do ask that you get permission to
retrieve a model, which is really a reasonable request. They want to put
the dogs away, so people don't get bit.
I suspect this frustration and yes, anger is caused by a very small
percentage of flyers. You all know the type. (That is my model and I
will go anywhere, through anything, destroy, ruin, trample and smash
anything that gets in my way to retrieve it). The one day I stopped for
permission to get a model, I spent a half hour listening to complaints
from the woman who resides there and calming her down. These complaints
were caused by one individual who had been there about a half hour
before me. While I was there, she put the dogs inside as I told her
there would probably be more models coming that way. And yes, the dogs
will bite.
Those of you who don't know how to treat people had better learn or
even with two minute maxes the Muncie site could be lost to freeflight.
In all my years of freeflight I have never had a problem with getting
permission to retrieve a model. Guys, You Treat The Land Owners With The
Same Respect that YOU would expect if they were on YOUR property. What
do you gain by being nice?-- A place to fly your toys.
I know that in the past AMA people have had talks with these
landowners, and I suspect it is time to again do something. Perhaps some
money to cover crop damage would help. This may already be in place as I
am not that close to any of these dealings. Certainly as Gil suggested,
filing criminal charges will do nothing but hasten the lose of Muncie
for freeflight.
Now assuming that the incident is smoothed over, I would suggest that
the CD's for future freeflight contests at Muncie, notify these people
in advance, if there is any possibility of models landing on their
property. There is probably a procedure already in place for this.
Bob Gutai
PS. Just got off the phone with Gil and found out I've been describing
the wrong dogs and landowners. Thought I'd send it anyway as most fits
even though the faces are different.
Mike S
=======
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I am having trouble contacting Mike Segrave. Could you please post in
SEN the short note below?
Many thanks
Sergio Montes
-------------------------
Mike
Have tried unsuccessfully to contact you regarding article. Please phone
61 03 62 296247 or e-mail from another computer.
Sergio
FREE FLIGHT FORUM REPORT EDITOR SUFFERS TEMPORARY BRAIN DEATH
=============================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In the BMFA Free Flight Forum Report information in SEN #703 Roger quoted=
the wrong phone and fax number for ordering. This was primarily because
that was exactly the one I sent him. It was in fact the previous London
phone code; it's one of Britain's traditions that British Telecom change
the nation's phone codes every few years, just so the customers know
they're getting value for the exorbitant phone charges
With abject apologies for the confusion, could you please amend the numbe=
r
to: 44 + (0)20 8777 5533.
Honestly, the lengths some people go to just to get a second mention of a=
product....
Martin
Confusion of canine terminology.
================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
For sportsmen that are semantically challenged it should be noted that the term,
"puppy" is one of endearment and affection. The term used for a puppy grown
to adulthood is Dawg. Now that, in contrast, has some very negative
connotations. For example, if you launch your new airplane to a less than
spectacular result you might hear someone in the background giving voice to
a soft"woof, woof" that should be taken as a gentle hint to go back to the
drawing board. Yet, If the observer exclaims, "Hot dog!" that is very good!
But be careful of couplings. If the term added is, say, "Yuppie Puppy" then,
bow, wow!, that is really bad news.
On second thought I'm becoming confused myself. Better forget all above
until I get this figured out.
Billious G.
UGL Contact Cement
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
John,
Saw your request on SEN about UGL Contact Cement. I used Google, the search
engine and came up with this website:
http://www.ugl.com/MAINTframe.html
It appears to have a whole line of paste and glue products. Check it out and
see if it is what you were looking for. Personally, I've never tried the
stuff. What application(s) do you use it for? I fly primarily Nordic gliders
and HLG (Chuckies) and Hand Held Catapult gliders.
Also, this is the Google website-you can find virtually anything-and it is
fast!
http://www.google.com/
Hope this helps, Fred T. (San Jose, CA)
UHG
===
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Input on the request for UHG contact cement from John Cuthbert (UK). I had pre
viously obtained quart containers of UHG at my local Hardware stores and suppli
ed the needs for M&K. Last Oct, UHG was not available in the stores I checked.
Likewise, Balsarite, a heat activated adhesive sold in hobby shops is no long
er available in California. The Hobby Shop owner believes it is still available
from the manufactures / supplies but it can not be shipped into California due
to new environmental air quality regulations (laws).
Are these products available in the other 49 states?
Thermals, Jim Parker
[Jim
Speaking to UHG user Walt Ghio this weekend, Walt confirms
that since Jan 1 2002 the UHG contact cement can no longer
be sold in California.
The product is sold in most other states.]
Two minutes at Muncie is not the answer...
==========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Two minutes at Muncie is not the answer...
Unfortunately, one model went off the field as a result of a line break in
high wind. It had the further bad luck of landing on property owned by
someone who doesn't like what we do. I have a feeling I know who that is.
The model, by the way, had a two minute max as it was an F1H.
I have flown Unlimiteds at Muncie and they have stayed on the field for over
7 minutes.
The max is not the issue. Even a one minute max under the unfortunate
circumstances would have involved the same result.
The one landowner involved, if I am accurate in my suspicion, is a nut.
Others around the site respond encouragingly when I have knocked on their
doors and asked permission to go on their property. Most even come out after
to see what these models look like.
The frustration, if any, comes from R/C models with bottomless gas tanks
droning for hours on end.
Again, making two minutes mandatory, regardless of conditions, won't help.
Its suggestion is, with all due respect, irresponsible.
Let's figure out a reasonable solution that will let all Free Flighters
enjoy the field as the first-rate facility it is.
Bill
Muncie Madness
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi there, all of you that are in the hobby for FLYING reasons.
Gil Morris's comment about the farmers band together is right on the money. I
t also turn my emotions on, big time.
We are right to want to fly at Muncie because this is "OUR" national, and
local, flying site. The farmers are right to protect their fields and produce
as we all know have been physically violated by inconsiderate retrievers.
The problem is simply the size of the field and foolish location and saves as
an excellent example of how much FF count to our leaders at the AMA.
Just the idea of buying land in snow covered, impossible to fly on weather
zone for 5-6 months of the year, is crazy. Not just for Free Flight but also
for RC and UC.
Taking in Millions of dollars annually in dues and other sources and spending
it on showcase buildings and "events" in a hobby that is an outdoor in nature
is even more crazy or worst.
I think that the original selection was absolutely crazy and undermined ALL
modelers trust. There are MORE modelers in the Southwest and California than
in the rest of the USA put together, especially RC. But now we all have to
live with the original sins and this is one of them.
So where do we go from here?
We must, somehow, get the AMA leadership to start buying 3-5 field, BIG ONES,
say 3X3 miles, and out of the way. If you go away from cities, and who needs
them when you fly outdoors, there is plenty of failed farms that will be glad
to get few dollars and call it a day. We don't need facilities or roads or
artificial lakes with gold fish. Lost Hills is a fantastic case in point. All
we need is space.
A major "Field Buying Program" is what we need. With all the money that will
be left over once we stop building the MUNCIE TAJ MAHAL we will be off and
flying again and not raising the farmers justified wrath.
Is anyone out there ready and capable to pick up the challenge?
Free flight forever
Arik Donde
flyer beware.
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger.
i have to agree with gill moris.
the more we keep going on to theese peoples private
property the more it is giong to alienate them and
pretty soon the field will be closed to free flight.
this brings up somthing else.
munsi is not a three minute or longer field.
if it was the model would not have left the field and
landed in this persons yard and end up being
destroyed.
munsi is a two minute field and it should be flown
that way.
any time you go for more than two minutes you are an
accident just waiting to happen .keep it at two.
D W .
Thanks
======
Thansk to Hank Cole for his donation in support of SEN.
....................
Roger Morrell
