SEN 724 - 7 Aug 2002

SCAT Electronic News 7 August 2002 issue 724

Table of Contents
Simpler is better , Luddite or not - Thorkildsen
Voros Jeno - Flash - Van Nest
Bunt Simulations - Edge of Beyond
Electronic timers - Ackery
Diamond Cutting Wheels - Dilly
Web Master Wanted - Rozelle
Pultrusion cap strip material in stock

Simpler is better , Luddite or not
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Hi Roger,

Since I just fly strapdown stuff I am probably
considered a luddite by some people but rest assured
we are not all against progress. I am happy to fly
against autostuff in AMA power and we seem to get a
nice mix of both types. For me simpler models and
less to go wrong seems to offset the gain in height
the auto stuff might offer for the gas models in the
events I fly. It basically comes down to picking air
anyway after you get past the first 4 or 5 flights.

I know for F1C there is no choice to be competitive
but to go auto but it sure isn't mandatory on a lot of
the simpler events.

I have to agree with you the latest NFFS symposium is
one of the best I have seen and I throughly enjoyed
it. Bucky Servaites and the contributors are to be
congratulated for a job well done.


Terry Thorkildsen

Voros Jeno - Flash
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1st Per Findahl Sweden
2nd Manfred Gruneis Austria
3rd Drappeau Phillippe France
101 fliers

43 fliers
Alex Andriukov, Charlie and Ryan Jones, Bob Pierchsio, Brian Van Nest
Retrivers Ben and Tom Coussen, Dallas and Jim Parker, Kyle Jones.

1st rd 82 degrees winds 8 10 miles Charleys plane landed near farm house, Parke
r and Coussens retreving, farmer took plane and walked toward farm house, thank
s to two fast guys plane was safetly retreived.
2nd rd no change in temp Ryan first attempt launch to ground, no damage With 5
flyers on pole and due to winds they barely had time for a breather. with 4 min
left in round Ryan launched and dropped 135 sec.
3rd Rd winds slightly picking up at 12 mph 87 degrees
4th rd winds 7 to 9 mph Brian dropped 5 sec.
5th rd temp 102 6 to 8 mph Alex launched 3o minutues into round. We did not kno
w it was only 30 min lunch break.
Ryan was last to go with 2 min to spare.
6th Rd winds picking up 11 to 17 mph 95 temp
7th rd Bob maxed out.
8th rd 5 min flight onlY 5 flyers
all made it
Winds were so strong that we had to change flight line. After the change and in
position the winds stopped
9th rd 5 flyers calm
1st Mike Woolner GBR 268
2nd Bob Pierschio USA 26o
3rd Hans Schoder SUI 245
Brian Van Nest 6th pl
Ryan Jones 9th
Really hard day without help from the whole team.

Bunt Simulations
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Just got back from the Euro Champs in Hungary. A fine
contest with excellent performances and much talk of
new developments (eg a variable pitch prop for F1C !).

General opinion was that F1A performance was up the
most due to the use of electronic timers - no surprise
there. I now see two different climb patterns; one is
vertical, the other is at an angle of say 70-80
degrees. I also see some better pitch overs (the bunt)
than others so I thought I would open a general couple
of questions to the SCAT readership to see what is what.

First, what is the best angle to use when the F1A is
climbing ? Is it vertical or less and has anyone done
any simulations to show why one is better than the
other ?

Second question concerns the bunt iteslf. Is there an
optimun time for the tail movement that provides the
bunt given a fixed angle of movement ? I ask this
because the mechanical models with the 'bang, bang'
movement seem to bunt worse than an electonic system.
Is this because it takes a finite time to move the tail
with a servo and this happens to be better
aerodynamically ?

I'm sure SCAT would welcome a general discussion on
this to aid the flyer. In particular if M&K or others
have updated the classic M&K bunt paper to consider
these points I would be particularly interested to hear
what the results are.

'Edge of Beyond'

[Mr Beyond

I have watched a some of my local F1A customers ... Zink, Hines, and Brun
trying different combo of movements, timing and sharp vs gradual
movement of surface. Also trying with and with out fast glide. The
fast glide seems to be a winner as it helps compensate
for a below par launch. ... on the others maybe someone wants to comment.

Electronic timers
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>From SCAT news 721 we saw the comment

",, I have stopped writing about it (electronic timers) because every
time I do the Luddites or the
Society for the Protection of Purity in Free Flight talked about
banning them ! ".

I would consider myself to have at least one foot fairly strongly in
the 'Luddite' camp, (even though I do not have the T shirt), if only
because I find that the KISS approach is something that I prefer, and
find that I need to follow.
But my PERSONAL opinion is that it is not a Luddite policy to try to
ban electronic timers. After all we have had Koster electronic timers
for about 15 years now (F1A and F1C) without any backlash, and in the
last 5 year there have been many more manufactures, and now electronic
timers have become widespread.

However where the 'Luddite' philosophy does object is where the real
possibility does (did ?) exist for the timer to be driven by on board
processing power and sensors that could provide artificial stability
and all manner of other new functions and abilities that would change
our basic Free Flight model into some sort of UAV with a completely
different abilities.

This is quite different from basic timer functions.

So I would encourage Roger to continue with his developments, and
writings, about electronic timers.

I have not been tempted by one yet, but if there was one that did not
need another electronic gizmo to run it, (and perhaps if you could
make it tick ;-) , I could be interested. I look forward to the time
when someone will invent an electronic timer with the simplicity and
price of a Silly Putty timer, so that I can fit them to my

David Ackery
New Zealand


0. the main issue is what is OK and what degree of automation is Kosher
and the problem is we have no Rabbi [meaning no disrespect ..]

1. some of the timers do tick - mainly dur to the servo. But I have
found a smaller speaker/buzzer so wil make an Ackery special [like
a made a Lagan special a few years ago] .. how oftens should it tick ?

2. I'm working on an HLG or cat glider timer - very simple
for the Luddite as no PPilot is required.]

Diamond Cutting Wheels
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Chris Murphy asks about a source for diamond cutting wheels for carbon.
Just got back from the European Championships in Hungary to find his
posting and some of the replies, but the following might add to the fund of

I use a dental wheel that sold for about $15-20 in the UK maybe six years
ago; got it from my dentist's technician. However, when over in California
for the World Champs last year we found that Harbor Freight do five for
$9.99, arbor included. They are around 0.5mm thick, about 20 thou. The same
source has sets of twenty diamond burrs for something silly, like about $7
(the price label came off mine), ten HSS rotary burrs for $7.99 and all
sorts of other goodies, mainly Taiwanese and not top of the range, I
suspect, including lathes and mills, but it's well worth a visit.

For the benefit of non-US people, Harbor Freight are a kind of power and
machine tool supermarket chain. Check them out on the web; they probably
ship overseas.

Martin Dilly

Web Master
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National Free Flight Society is accepting applications
for Web master, a contracted, paid position. The
Web master has responsibility to the NFFS
Publications Subcommittee, Planning & Operations
Committee and, ultimately, to the NFFS board of
directors and president.

Deadline for applications is Oct. 15, 2002.

Send resume, with qualifications, to:
Bob Stalick, President, NFFS
5066 NW Picadilly Circle, Albany OR 97321
Phone 541-928-8101.

Pultrusion cap strip material in stock
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I just got my remaining shipment from DPP. I now have the much asked for
carbon pultrusion cap strip in stock. Sizes are as follows:
1 x .12 mm (0.039" x 0.0047")
1.5 x .12 mm (0.059" x 0.0047")
2 x .13 mm (0.079" x 0.005")
3 x .13 mm (0.118" x 0.005")

Full details at:

[Denver, CO]
Tru-Weight Indoor Balsa

Roger Morrell