SEN 755 - 12 Nov 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 12 November 2002 issue 755
Tabale of Contents
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Jr Team Program - Parker
F1B rubber lament - Bashaw
Traveling on Commercial Airliners with Models since 9/11/2001
Rubber versus Power - Dukie
The Patterson Contest ? - Dukie and Bogie .... very Hollywood !
SEN: sweepettelee to Bungy Boy
Tan II Comment - Gannon
Demise of Tan II - Elliott
Fly Power - Hatschek
More Flys in the ointment or is it flying ointment ?
Flight of Fantasy - Ramrod250
Rossi Rules - Moseley
wing protectors - Michele
Jr Team Program
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Jr Team Program,
I occasionally hear the USA Jr Team program has not produced any new Open
flyers. This past weekend at the USFFC, I was greatly impressed with Mike
Keller's running of the FAI events. He had a difficult weather decision on
Saturday to make. He stuck with the published program but flexed enough
when necessary. He pulled off running all 6 events on Sunday and the flyoffs.
Mike was a member of the first two Jr Teams.
Thanks Mike.
Thermals, Jim Parker
F1B rubber lament
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I've never had such a laugh as I had reading the last SEN issue
regarding the solutions to the loss of Tan II. How many fliers remember
trying to wind a Pirelli motor with 6 or 8 knots in it for a max. We
were troubled with the situation, but didn't "belly ache" world wide.
Marv Bashaw
Traveling on Commercial Airliners with Models since 9/11/2001
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Dear Bill and Roger,
After seeing the post by Henning Nyhegn (a Dane) in SCATen,
regarding his unpleasent exit from San Francisco on United
Airlines, I started a thread on "Stuka Stunt Forum" regarding
this situation, as there had been a previous thread on the
subject, which I could not find with the "search" function.
Roger may note that I edited Henning's letter of some self-
incriminating statements. Roger, FYI, Bill Lee is a former CL
Team member (unless I'm mistaken, Team Manager for the '02 team
to Germany), and probably will be heavily involved in the '04
World CL Champs to be held at Muncie. Below is the URL for the
thread at Stuka Stunt Forum. The post by "Tools" is of some
interest, as he is an airline pilot, as are Ted Fancher and Dave
Fitzgerald, tho neither have posted at this time. Below that is
an edited copy of Henning's letter posted on SCATen. Below that
is a copy of a letter written by Chris Cox, former Canadian CL
team member. I hope this comes to some good, but maybe the best
plan is to UPS or Fed-Ex engines, tanks and fueling equipment
both directions, and just bring the models as checked baggage.
Prior to the '01 World FF Champs, I suggested to my Ozzie
friends to carry little or no carry-on baggage...camera,
magazine, no pens or pencils, etc. I guess it worked, and I
don't think they flew Quantas. It is my hope that some good
planning can help both FF and CL travelers.
Best Regards, Steve Helmick (an F1A flier turned to F2B with bad
knees)
F1C & F1J vs. United Airlines
===========================
From: "Henning Nyhegn"
Hi Roger.
Subj: No models engines on commercial airplanes in USA:
I want to tell you very shortly about my experience checking
in to a domestic flight with United Airlines from San
Francisco to Chicago. It took one and half hours to check my
modelbox because there was my F1J model with a 1cc motor in
it. After some discussion, two extra security people were
called to assist from UA. They told me that I was not allowed
to take a used model engine onboard (even not in my luggage!)
and not even a new engine on board. This was the new rule now
in USA after 11 Sept. So I have to dismount my motor and throw
it in the trash container, together with my empty fuel can. So
be sure to check with your airlines before departure if you
want to take model engines with you on a domestic flight within
the USA.
Henning
The following letter was forwarded to me by Chris Cox, one of
our local B.C. CL Stunt fliers of note. I did not know he was
a high muckety-muck in the Canadian equivalent of the FAA,
and that could no doubt have an increased chance of this
tactic working.
To Whom It May Concern:
Re: Preparation of Model Airplane Engine for Air Transport
I have prepared my model aircraft engines in accordance with
the Dangerous Goods Act special provision A70. I have
cleaned and purged the engines and related components so that
they are free of all flammable material. These components
have been subjected to a neutralizing agent, castor oil, as
recommended by Transport Canada.
I am carrying two engines and related components, these
engines have not been used since the cleaning and purging.
Yours truly,
Chris Cox
Superintendent, Pacific region
Commercial and Business Aviation
Transport Canada
Member: Canadian Control-line World Championships Team
The Patterson Contest ?
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Roger
Any idea about what days are what events the Patterson flies? 1st round
start.
Thx
Duke
The Patterson FAI Challenge, Version 2
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THE JIM PATTERSON FAI CHALLENGE
Sponsored by SCAT
Site is at Lost Hills November 16-17, 2002
This is an America's Cup event
Sunrise is 6:38 am Sunset is 4:52 pm PST
SATURDAY: F1A, F1B, and F1C
One hour rounds starting at 8am
First round maxes: F1A 210, F1B 240, F1C 240
using supermax scoring
180 second maxes round 2 - 7
Flyoff 3pm
10 minute launch period when all are ready
Max time progression 300, 420, and 540 seconds
if daylight allows.
SUNDAY:
If necessary,F1A, F1B, and F1C flyoffs
will start at 7AM.
10 minute max with 10 minute launch period
F1G, F1H, F1J
Rounds will start at 8:30 am, hour long.
Maxes are 120 seconds for first 5 rounds
AWARDS: Perpetual trophies and engraved
glassware in all classes will be presented at
completion of flying.
Entry Fee: 10 dollars per event
Join the cookout on the field Saturday
after the flying. Bring eating tools,
meat, drinks, etc and food to share.
Charcoal or propane grills only. Bring
a lantern to see what you are eating.
Tables and chairs.
Don Leath, Contest Director
P. O. Box 596
Palmdale, CA 93550-4415
(661) 273-8668
or contact Bill Bogart
14837 Los Robles Avenue
Hacienda Heights, CA 91745-2615
(626) 333-1194
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Rubber versus Power
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Here's a good question.
What would scare you the most if 2 terrorists came after you, one with a 30
gram F1B motor and the other with a cyclon .061 with a folding prop?
I'll bet some bureaucrat, hired to combat terrorism, thought up the model
airplane engine ban in airline baggage. How many engines have you ever heard
of that exploded. If it could be done, we modelers certainly would have done
it by now. It is true that some residual fuel can be inside an engine, but
the quantity wouldn't be enough to get one pop out of a piss ant's
motorscooter.
Dukie
[Dukie - Rubber is Power !!]
SEN: sweepettelee to Bungy Boy
==============================
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Yes, once again we can trust Mac the Bungy Boy Bigot
to solve all the problems related to "Life, The Universe and Everything".
I for one would never have thought of the 6 foot dia winding shield, but
I did get an idea for fitting it in your box...make one like the twist-up
car window shades! Then you can simply "Twist", put it away, then "Flop"
it open for use, but CAUTION: Stand clear when you do so!
There is one thing that I don't get...why do you have to wind the bungee?
Simply hook it to the F1B, pull back as desired and High-start the puppies!
I surely am missing some vital point, which surely with be brought to my
attention by the dyed and true Sports Rubber men.
I leave now to find Mac's box to see if he has room for me in there too!
Sweepettelee
--- Lee Hines
Tan II Comment
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Roger,
A comment for the Tan II situation and just a thought (one man's
opinion)
Okay, Okay, so there isn't any more Tan II. According to the
editorial in the SEN 753 issue the Tan sport rubber is just as good as some
of the not-so-good batches of Tan II in years gone by which means "there is
rubber and its flyable". Rubber is very important but it's the human factor
that eliminates a lot of "us" fliers and the rubber had nothing to do with
it, that being, I made a bad launch, prop didn't unlock, short DT, model out
of trim, I picked bad air, and the list goes on and then we can compare
models too. Everyone knows how great the store-bought European built coupes
are, right! They'll do 3+ minutes on a calm morning, they fly great and the
workmanship is gorgeous, well how come at the last Livotto contest this past
October the 1st and 3rd places out of 20 flyers (I can't speak for Mr.
Schroedter's model) were home built "All Balsa" models. So, granted rubber
is a large factor but its not everything so my suggestion is, lets go back
35 grams in F1B, (leave coupe alone) and "Lets fly what you got" and may the
better flyer win. But, lets just make sure that next years US FAI team has a
good supply of Tan II for the World Champs.
Thanks, Bill Gannon, Lancaster, Ca.
Demise of Tan II
=================
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Roger,
Demise of Tan II
As a sometime F1B flyer, albeit of the Luddite school (balsa, tissue,
PGI),I would just like to concur with Jim Bradley's comments regarding
the issue of Tan II. Whilst the use of high tech materials has clearly
been a factor in the vastly improved performance of F1B's I think most
people accept, and Peter King and others have made the point, that the
quality of the rubber is the major reason for this improved
performance.
As Jim says, what does it really matter if your model only does 4.5
mins instead of 6. Having lower quality rubber is one significant way
of addressing the perceived problem of F1B's having too high a
performance. This means we shouldn't have to worry about reducing the
weight of rubber to 25g or whatever when the next rule change is due.
Having said all that , judging by the comments of some of your other
correspondents, it would appear that Tan Super Sport looks to be not
too bad anyway.
We should all clearly be very grateful for what John Clapp is doing and
welcome his efforts to get the best rubber possible. It is not,
however, the end of the world if we have to accept a lower performance
product.
Ray Elliott (UK)
Fly Power
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Re the revived interest in fly-powered model aircraft. As I recall
(dimly) I built fly-powered models when I was still in high school
(1939-1943) after reading about them in Model Airplane News (NOT Air Trails).
I also seem to recall the article referring to "the Detroit Nationals,"
whenever that was).
I don't recall the source (original MAN article or subsequent discussion)
but someone pointed out the finding that smaller flies had a higher
power-to-weight ratio than larger flies or horseflies. Refrigerating the
"motors" reduced their activity and made it easier to glue them on the nose
of my 2.5" wingspan microfilm-covered indoor-style models, which,
incidentally always needed significant downthrust.
One older modeling acquaintance, who was also a bee-keeper, told me of
powering models of about 6" to 8" span with honeybees. His son-in-law, Mal
McLean, is a fellow member of the Sky Scrapers; he might recall more on this.
Bob Hatschek
More Flys in the ointment or is it flying ointment ?
====================================================
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Roger...latest SCATeN causes some comments.
My father told of flying fly-powered indoor models during his
youth, late '20's or early '30's. Nothing new. I seem to recall
reading an article about it, most likely AAM, MA or Model
Builder magazines, or maybe NFFS Digest, during the '70's or
early '80's.
The demise of Tan II gives me a giggle. Every time I got excited
about flying F1B, I bought rubber, I think 10 lbs each time.
Circa Feb. '82 Champion and Feb. '94 Tan II (approximately).
Both were junk. I may offer these for sale on eBuy. Offers
accepted!
There has been some discussion on CL Forums about flying
commercial airlines with models. It seems that this is ok if the
engines and fuel tanks, pumps, empty cans, etc., are all flushed
with a suitable purging agent. A suitable purging agent is said
to be castor oil. The trick appears to be that you need to get
this done by a licensed & certified service, and they aren't
telling who that would be. There probably is somebody who does
this, for a tidy fee, but it might be a service that could be
done by a modeler with a bit of paperwork and desire to be
helpful, particularly one with some past/present
aviation/airline connection. Just a guess.
I would also like to say that in my late '50's, with arthritis
and many aches and pains, I am enjoying controline stunt, some
flying, some judging, some CD'ing. One of the most wonderful
parts is that the first round usually starts at 9am, rarely 8am,
but never earlier. As much as I liked flying F1A's from dawn to
dusk, this is a concept I can get behind!
SCATeN is great, really enjoy it. Good job! Thermals to all,
Steve
Flight of Fantasy
==================
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In a message dated 11/10/2002 11:46:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. writes:
Henning Nyhegn's experience with F1J engines is interesting. I've wondered
what problems we might encounter post-September 11. But I have flown with
models several times since -- including on United from Milwaukee to San
Francisco for the recent Sierra Cup -- and have seen no real difference in
checkin, except for longer lines and an occasional "singling out" at the
security checkpoint, as might happen with any other passenger.
I think the problem might have started with taking a rather unusual item as
carry-on baggage. I take little or no carry-on anymore, and nothing
modeling-related at all. I do remove the engines from the models when I pack
the model box, and they go into a small box I put in my luugage. This
lightens the box a bit, and if the box is midhandled and a mount breaks, a
loose fuselage can rattle around without causing major damage.
I've used this system for several years with no problems at checkin. When
asked, I tell the truth about what's in the model box, and that has been the
end of it. I have not had my luggage checked at the ticket counter, and I
guess this could cause a different result.
Arrive early, be polite, and that will do the trick more often than not.
Jim Haught
Rossi Rules
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" Maybe in F1C we could give the people who want to use G15
Super Tigers, Rossi MK 1's, Cox 15's a 10 second motor run "
Now, THAT's a great idea!! Can we go back to 17.76 ozs for 'em too? I'd
definitely consider a return to FAI Power after all these decades....
wing protectors
===============
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I recently started a small company producing R/C aircraft wing protectors.
I have received a few e-mails about free flight wing protectors. I am not
sure what would work for free flight wings, any help would be greatly
appreciated. Please e-mail me,or check out my site at www.wingprotectors.com
thank you
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
............................
Roger Morrell
