SEN 1967

Table of Contents SEN 1967

  1. Fab Feb Clarifications
  2. FF Dude Award
  3. AM Cup banquet and More
  4. F1A wings for Sale
  5. Ping Pong Ball experiment
  6. Only Change the fly off
  7. Dukie's POV
  8. Leslie's input

Fab Feb Clarifications

The Kiwi World Cup with deviate from standard FAI rules in that it will be flown from a flight line with no pole positions.  No time keepers will be provided and sportsmen are expected to time each other.  For the flyoffs the objective is to have 2 timer keepers for each model from 2 different countries. 

Following the recent kerfuffle in the last World Cup of the year sportsmen should have their numbers on their models as required by FAI and AMA regulation. They risk disqualification if they do not.

The results of the events will be online in close to real-time.  Links will follow.  Note that the Kiwi and North American do not require registration in advance, although doing it is very much appreciated, some all entrants may not appear on the results immediately.

FF Dude Award

As last year SEN and Magic Model Sport will be sponsoring the FF Dudes Awards for the Fab Feb F1ABCQ events. This is the best aggregate score in each class using the world Cup scoring with no bonus points and no mulligans (not an anti-Irish move but to say scores for all 3 events count no matter if you were there or not).  Last year’s winners were – A : Gorsky, B: Andriukov & Ghio (tie)  C: Babenko  and Q: Crowe

America's Cup Banquet

As in the past years, the 2014 AmCup Awards will be awarded at the SCAT AmCup Banquet in association with the 2015 MaxMen contest at the Wasco Elks Club, Saturday Feb 14, 2014. Make plans to stop and get a rose for your special gal and treat her to great meal and festivities!   We're having the classic tritip,  dinner. Janna V worked with the staff at the Elks club for the veggie dish this year-- eggplant parmigiana. I have 8 dinners for my known veggy friends-- if you usually don't go veggy but want the eggplant parmigiana you must contact me by email.  <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

In addition  to the AmCup awards, we'll be awarding other SCAT awards.

The 2015 Mentor award goes to Chuck Etherington, Chuck had many nominations followed by Brian Van Nest.

The SCAT Black cup goes to Shlomi Roenzwieg, he won one  and place second  twice at the five  SCAT Cup contests this past summer.

We have inducted nine SCAT members into the Life Membership category in appreciation for their past long service to SCAT. Thank you for your service.  Tokens of appreciation are in works—perhaps ready for the AmCup on February 14, 2015 for those that can attend.
George Batiuk
Pierre Brun
Hector Diez
Dick Gildersleeve
Al Hotard                                                                                                                                 
Juan Livotto
Bob Norton
Robert Provart
Bob Van Nest

Congratulation to the 2014 America’s Cup winners. Reminder to the AmCup first place winners to shine up the perpetual trophy, dust off your coat and tie to up-hold the award banquet standards.   Jr indicates the highest placing FAI junior flyer. 2013 winners are responcible to have thier perpetual trophy engraved, polished and delivered to the  2014 Banquet on Feb 14, 2015.  I have the F1C, J and Q trophies.


1 Jama Danier
2 Jim Parker
3 Shlomi Rosenzweig
4 Andrew Barron 
5 Brian VanNest
Jr Garrett Tremayne

1 Walt Ghio
2 Blake Jensen
3 Tom Vaccaro
4 Charles Jones
5 Alex Andriukov

Jr Jace Pivonka
1 Gil  Morris
2 Faust Parker
3 Ron Mc Burnett
4 Don Chesson
5 Randy Secor

1 Bob Hanford
2 Taron Malkhasyan
3 Cade Fedor
4 Glen Schneider
5 Colby Fedor
Jr Taron Malkhasyan

1 Tiffany O'Dell
2 Tony Mathews
3 Peter Brocks
3 John Clapp
5 Blake Jensen
Jr Kyle Gerspacher


1 Bob Sifleet
2 Brian VanNest
3 Mike McKeever
4 Jean   Pailet
5 Jim Parker

Jr Kyle Gerspacher

1 Faust Parker

2 Jean Pailet
3 Bob Hanford
4 Gil Morris
5 Ray Boyd
Jr Cody Fedor

1 Matt Gewain
2 Bernie Crowe
3 Julie Parker

4 Mike Pykelny

5 Joel  Yori
Jr Joel  Yori

1 Peter Brocks

2 Tom Ioerger
3 Bob Sifleet
4 Dick Wood
4 Rick Pangell
Jr Garrett Tremayne
Thermals,  JIM

F1A Wings for sale
From:     Ken Bauer
Stamov short wings with "Victors" airfoil.  One of first sets made with Victor's "super high tech" molded D-box.  Vintage 2006.  6.5mm steel joiner.  Not a single patch.  Original Icarex covering.  Never crashed.  $300
Available February in Lost HillsKen Bauer  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

A Ping Pong Ball Experiment

A neutral way to reduce performance in flyoffs is to increase a model’s drag. We have an ancient  antecedent of cross section requirements, but that was done to make models resemble the ‘real’ things but ended up with bulges along the fuselage.
One can increase drag by tethering (to avoid creating moments) ping pong balls to a model’s fuselage. If two ping pong balls are strung on the same line, they should be 4-5 diameters apart. The drag coefficient of a sphere is about 1.2 multiplied by its cross section, while that of the model can be approximated by 0.05 multiplied by the area of the wing. A back of the envelop calculation indicates that one 38 mm ping pong ball will reduce an F1B’s L/D by about 15%.
Between the contests at Maxmen ring I plan to experiment with the effect of ping pong balls. I bought a box with 30 balls and invite others to test their effect on their models’ altitude and glide.  F1As and Cs would probably need at least 2 ping pong balls. Again, this is strictly a flyoffish experiment.
Aram Schlosberg
P.S. Interested to sell a Honda 110 chase bike. Can be reached at my name period, follows by schlosberg1 at

Only change flyoff rules

From:     Roger Simpson
I hope this gets into a SEN  publication for all to see prior to the
competitors traveling and those meetings that have been proposed. 


Interesting to read all the comments regarding proposed rule changes.  In
the latest SEN it was stated that "some parties were concerned" about the
performance level that might make it difficult to put on a World or
Continental Championships.  I take this to mean dealing with the size of the
flying field, and visibility problems.  I, like many others, have been
chasing performance for more than 50 years, and to the CIAM's credit they
have not restricted technical advancements, nor have they antiquated any
models, engines, or equipment, that would wipeout the competitor's monetary



I would propose a simple change to our F1 flyoff rules, with no change to
any F1 class rules, specifications, etc., that would be favorably received
by both the organizers and the competitors.


Simply change the ALL flyoff maxes to be a 6 minute max (360 seconds), with
the first round flyoff window to be 6 minutes, the second flyoff window to
be 4 minutes, and the third flyoff (if necessary) to be 3 minutes.  Should a
fourth flyoff round be required, do the same as now.. next morning  a 10
minute max but with a 3 minute window.


Had the organizers of the last European Championships used a constant 6
minute max there would not have been the situation in both the 7 minute and
the 9 minute flyoff rounds where F1C models glided into electric lines and
exploded at 7 minutes.


Organizers should know the flyoff limitations of their competition site and
limit the length of the flyoff rounds.  I was the contest director for the
first 25 years of the Sierra Cup, and several times we went directly to the
next morning for a flyoff because of wind direction, or visibility problems
prevented us from holding flyoffs immediately after the rounds were


Yes these F1 events cost large investments in time and money..... And well
they should!  This is the highest level of competition for free flight model
aircraft in the world.. World Championships are held, this is not an event
for a Saturday club fly day.  Like Gil Morris stated, our beginner events in
America are the AMA classes.  From those classes come our F1 competitors.
If no one is flying these events, why would we dumb down our classes .. For

Dukie's POV

From:     Douglas Galbreath

Hi. . . It's me again  "Dukie" to most of you. Doug to all the rest of you.
This is starting to get depressing. What I am seeing here is a small group of really good modelers that make up the (FAI FF portion) majority of the competitors in F1 free flight. The problem is there is no entry-level into FAI. You are either one of 'em or you're not. In order to bring in potential competitors, there needs to be a practical way to expose potential participants to the sport of FAI free flight. We should be willing to look hard at proposals that would not necessarily change FAI, but would interest non participants in giving it a shot. I don't know what the big shots in the sport are worried about. The FAI "beginner" probably would not be a threat to the "high buck" flyers, but the exposure would possibly entice some to go "all in" eventually. The present situation will not get better until we realize that our sport as we have known it, will surely croak. Look at the ages of the competitors in USA. If nothing else, we in the US could adopt a program to encourage some non-FAI guys and gals to give FAI a try without going "all-in". If we were to include some kind of entry-level F1 participation, it might just light up some fire in the non-FAI community. Think about the future a bit. where do you see it in 10 years?
Thanks for listening
Doug Galbreath (Dukie)

Douglas Galbreath
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Leslie's Input

It was about five years ago when our modeller bee hive was stirred up  based on an other British proposal.  It is certainly good to see that there are many people out there who still care about the state of our sport.  Here below are some of my thoughts from five years ago which were published in SCAT.
Now that the UK proposal was referred to further reviews, we should continue the discussion about the present state and the future of free flight. I believe that not just the modeling community but FAI must take steps to correct the problem with our sport. Yes, I said sport. At the moment we are recognized world wide as a bunch of hobbyist. If chess is given the sport status in many countries, why not modeling   which involves hand crafting and athletics. Growing up in the Eastern Block and living in the West for forty years, I can reasonably analyze the situation and  must agree with comments received from the "sub continent". In the socialism the youth development was very important.  Most of the modelers came out of those clubs in schools and factories. Now that the Eastern Block dissolved and they adopted the capitalist system, they face the same problems like the rest of the World.  Where do I see that we as the modeling community must make changes? 

1. FAI - CIAM should assist all national federations with obtaining the sport status. That would provide government founding to the sport, which would support youth development and the National Teams. 

2. The national federations should approach their education ministry, school boards and ask to introduce aero modeling to their polytechnic classes.

 3. Some degree of limitations must be implemented in to the technical development of F1A, F1B and F1C. This is necessary to keep the costs of models down. Twenty years ago, free flight was popular and the least expensive with cost of a kit under $100.00. Today you can purchase an RC ready to fly glider model with radio starting at $250.00, compared to an F1A which priced between $800.00 - $5000.00. If limitations will not be introduced, the sport will end up being an elitist activity and as a sport, it will die. If there is a big demand for continuing technical advancement, (as suggested from the Czech Republic by Ivan Horejsi years ago and who had the foresight), a super category should be created. This will allow for new developments, without destroying the interest of mainstream modelers

. 4.       The free flight subcommittee members should not represent themselves but their nation's sportsmen. Regarding any change of rules, a questioner should be sent to all members of CIAM who would distribute it to the interest groups for their opinion. The results would be returned to Mr. Kaynes and the subcommittee. This would allow the average modeler's view to be considered not just a selected individual's.  By all CIAM countries involved, the majority of modeller’s interest would be represented.  It would provide a better blend of people who would contribute to the development of all the categories and would allow a more reasonable voting regarding technical and sporting code changes for each category.  With the current system the FF technical subcommittee members with the knowledge of one category are involved in making changes in other classes. 

5. Full size plans should be published by individuals or the modeling industry (at a price) which will allow a junior or anybody to build and complete their models successfully. Since the elimination of the builder of the model rule, no plans are available. 
6. The international promotion of our sport should be considered by FAI - CIAM. For the World Championships, all organizers 
(with the assistance of CIAM) should invite the newspapers and television stations to report the competition. < /span>

7.       Junior competitors.Banning models with flappers, folders, geared engines  for junior modellers.Reasoning.  The intention is to re-instate the spirit of the sport in to aero-modeling.  Re-establish and maintain the educational value of the sport for juniors.  Provide a fair competition to all participants and eliminating the advantage for children who’s parents have a deeper pocket.

I would like to encourage all modelers around the World to voice their opinion about free flight on this forum or with their national federation. Let’s not wait until the house is on fire, but prepare the protection and build the future. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 It is interesting that nothing was done and today we are debating the same issues.  The meeting suggested by Ron Felix (supported by many others) and scheduled for Lost Hills is a great idea. However, please remember that all discussions at the meeting and on this or any other forum are nothing more just personal opinions and discussions.   That is until,  each national federation of CIAM make and submits an official proposal as specified by the Sporting Code.  Each national federation's CIAM representative must consult with their members of each category involved before voting at the meeting in Switzerland. Here in Canada we are doing just that. When I was on the CIAM FF subcommittee, I would not comment on any of the subjects without  receiving the opinion of our members who's category was involved and voted accordingly.

The World Cup system should be also reviewed because in reality, it is a European Cup.
Based on the number of competitions on each Continent ( The Americas, Australia, Asia, Europe,)  only Europeans have a chance to win.  
 Having said that, we are proud of our Jama Danier who won the 2014 World Cup in F1A. But at what cost???  Spending about $40000.00 of his own money just for travel, not mentioning the cost of the models and his personal time invested. I do not know any other sportsman who made one third of that commitment and sacrifice. Not just he deserved it but must be congratulated (here in Canada we did) for his efforts and commitment to our sport.   

There are too many competitions in Europe which overlap one another and which also reduces the
participants for each contest.  Therefore each country should be allowed only one World Cup.  The Americas, Australia and New Zealand should keep the three.  (This is just my opinion which is based on geography, cost and the number of competitors.)  To make the World Cup more meaningful, the winner of each category should get a free entry to the following World Championship.  That would be an addition to the three members of their country.

Yes, it looks like and feels like that our house is on fire.  Again, please remember that nothing will be done without the proper submission of proposals as specified by the Sorting Code!!!
Leslie Farkas

Roger Morrell