SEN 1514

Table of Contents - SEN 1514

  1. SCAT Annual on track
  2. ICE MAN
  4. More on the new US Team Selection plan

SCAT Annual Update - on track

Some people has expressed concern that this weekend's SCAT annual might be postponed because of possible bad weather.  The Thurs-Fri  are forecast as showers and with only 10% chance on Sat morning thru Sunday, low winds-- should be a good weekend.   So there are no plans to change the schedule.

 Past experience says the new road  is passable within 24 hrs of heavy rain. This past Fab Feb the road remained passable during  the rain / heavy showers.

 While last weekend there was quite heavy rain in the Los Angeles and other coastal areas and snow in some mountains, the rain fall in the San Joaquin valley was much less and a report from the field indicates that it is OK.

Iceman 2011

This year Mikhail Kosonozhkin was the IceMan in F1A. This could be considered his second victory, as in the first year of the series, 2008, you had to register separately. Mikhail collected then the biggest score of World Cup points in the three winter contests, but had not registered to to IceMan. Since then, there has been no separate registration, but all contestants in the three frozen-lake competitions have been counted in. Mikhail took two wins on this years tour, quite an achievement! Per Findahl, the winner of the Matfors contest, was the follower-up.

In F1B, you had to score well in all contests to make a placing in the IceMan. Tony Luman of Estonia made rock-solid flights in all the flyoffs, took two second places and one fourth, to claim the title. Walt Ghio from the US won the Finnish contest and was second in Sweden, but had bad luck in Norway and placed second, followed by Yrjö Waltonen who took the title in Sweden. Alex Andriukov flew only in Norway and won there, but one victory was good enough only to sixth place!

F1C is somewhat lacking participants, I guess flying power models is not that fun in the wintertime. Juri Roots of Estonia flew in all three contests to take a clear victory over Drozdov of Russia and Kuukka of Finland.

This year the IceMan was organized so that the Norway contest started, followed by the Swedish contest in the middle of the week, and ended in Finland one week after the start. Quite a tight schedule, which is intended to make it possible to fly all three contests on one trip, as many people did. It can be quite easily managed if you travel by car, but if you choose to fly, then the traveling is a little more complicated. The Norwegian and Finnish sites are within 2 to 2 1/2 hours drive from an international airport (Oslo and Helsinki), but Matfors is four hours away from Stockholm. There is an airport also in Sundsvall, but this is served mostly by domestic flights (from Stockholm). This year there were some rumors that the Swedish contest would be held closer to Stockholm, I guess it is not that straightforward to move an established contest to another location. Anyway the plan is to run the IceMan also next year with a "three contests in a week"-format.


For more information go to   the MatforsVT web page; the precise page is , but if you type into your browser "MatforsVT" to come to the home page of Matfors VinterTävling, and on the left bottom corner there is a link to IceMan Results, and following that you reach another page where the results from all years can be opened.

Results for F1A
 Pos Name Country Results
Holiday On IceMatfors VTIBearcupTotal
 1 Kosonozhkin, Mikhail RUS521952123
 2 Findahl, Per SWE215042113
 3 Huber, Kosma SWE3240 72
 4 Henriksson, Kim FIN21202768
 5 Findahl, Oscar SWE2630662
 6 Westen, Henrik SWE17251860
 7 Makarov, Sergey RUS42  42
 8 Malila, Lauri SUI10141236
 9 Nielsen, Leif DEN1 3233
 10 Holmbom, Mikael SWE1515 30
 11 Nyhegn, Jes DEN19 1029
 12 Kuikka, Petri FIN12 1123
 13 Henriksson, Mikke FIN  2222
 14 Savolainen, Janne FIN  2121
 15 Salminen, Heikki FIN  2020
 16 Pärna, Ardo EST  1919
 17 Klungrehaug, Atle NOR5 1419
 18 Valkonen, Kimmo FIN 18 18
 19 Valo, Jari FIN 16218
 20 Halbmeier, Dirk GER18  18
 21 Plume, Anrijs LAT612 18
 22 Lepp, Tambet EST  1717
 23 Åsberg, Daniel SWE 17 17
 24 Ronkanen, Pekka FIN  1616
 25 Jensen, Steffen NOR16  16
 26 Hellgren, Robert SWE14  14
 27 Kilpelainen, Ossi FIN 13 13
 28 Lihtamo, Matti FIN  1313
 29 Olstad, Svein NOR13  13
 30 Steffensen, Ingolf NOR11  11
 31 Jukka, Juslin FIN  99
 32 Weimer, Thomas GER9  9
 33 Lappsonen, Jori FIN  88
 34 Varhos, Deniz SWE8  8
 35 Jensen, Lars Buch DEN7  7
 36 Pajunen, Timo FIN  77
 37 Varuskivi, Vesa FIN3 47
 38 Tähkäpää, Heikki FIN  55
 39 Pettersson, Johan SWE4  4
 40 Poljaev, Valery RUS  33
Results for F1B
 Pos Name Country Results
Holiday On IceMatfors VTIBearcupTotal
 1 Luman, Tonu EST422642110
 2 Ghio, Walt USA2415295
 3 Waltonen, Yrjö FIN10511374
 4 Rosonoks, Viktor LAT20192766
 5 Woolner, Mike GBR26 3258
 6 Andriukov, Alexander USA52  52
 7 Peers, Brian Russell GBR32 1951
 8 Kutvonen, Ari FIN14201448
 9 Eimar, Bror SWE1731 48
 10 Torgersen, Ole NOR2121 42
 11 Wivardsson, Gunnar SWE1616739
 12 Nereng, Vegar NOR5171537
 13 Mackus, Rolandas LTU19 1635
 14 Larsen, Dag NOR7121231
 15 Hollander, Nils-Erik SWE1813 31
 16 Broberg, Håkan SWE915327
 17 Isotalo, Juhani FIN811625
 18 Ancans, Jurijs LAT3101023
 19 Khrebtov, Andrei RUS  2121
 20 Isotalo, Janne FIN  2020
 21 Solodov, Maxim RUS  1818
 22 Shelepov, Alexander RUS  1717
 23 Linkosalo, Tapio FIN11 415
 24 Bortne, Tor NOR15  15
 25 Dahlin, Michael SWE 14 14
 26 Ruyter, Pim NED13  13
 27 Kiiskinen, Markku FIN 9211
 28 Harjo, Indrek EST  99
 29 lantsov, Alexey RUS  88
 30 Eklund, Hans SWE 8 8
 31 Woodhouse, Michael GBR6  6
 32 Suhonen, Niina FIN  55
 33 Wold, Jan NOR4  4
 34 Saravirta, Anton FIN  11
Results for F1C
 Pos Name Country Results
Holiday On IceMatfors VTIBearcupTotal
 1 Roots, Juri EST405041131
 2 Drozdov , Alexander  RUS  5151
 3 Kuukka, Kaarle FIN50  50
 4 Tiho , Vahur EST  3131
 5 Naaber , Raimond  EST  2525
 6 Truu , Kaarel  EST  2020
 7 Rekhin , Nikolay  RUS  1919

WESTFAC III will be held on June 22nd through the 25th in Denver Colorado on the famous 27,000 acres of fabulous Free Flight field managed by the MMM . Our Contest Director is Chuck Etherington and we will provide 23 FLYING ACES Events during the three days of flying after scale judging on the 22nd of June.Our website has your Pre- Registration form on the Events page and you can download it with ease. The Hq. Hotel is listed on the form with a telephone number for reservations. Just mention WESTFAC for the nice discount on rates. There is overnite parking on the field at a small cost.
For those of you who have not flown or built FLYING ACES type aircraft, check out the Event list...there are plenty of Events for you to compete in and have a great time. Visit our website at       Many Maxes to All     Roger Willis
Further Discussion on the latest TSC proposal

First off, when I said that the TSC failed to Highlight the changes, I did not mean in any way to imply that it was intentional to hide the changes.  But, the TSC did fail to check the proposal after it was printed and before it was mailed out.  A simple phone call to Colleen would caught the fact that that AMA did not correctly print your document.
Now...... I have read Chuck's reply, one from Aram, one from Jim Bradley, and Mike McKeever's.  I understand what and why the TSC attempted to do what they did, i.e., shoe horn 2 contests and two sets of flyoffs into the same time frame as the single contest previous finals.
I have had Chuck, Aram, and Mike say essentially, don't worry..... if there are retrieval problems the CD and/or the jury will delay the start of the next round.  I will tell you right now that I do not believe that will happen, and here is why!!
Everywhere in the team program it states that the CD will run the finals exactly as the laid out in the program.  The Jury is told the same.  What is the CD to do, not start a round until all fliers on on their pole ready to fly, does he take role, seek out the fact that the flyer(s) has/have not returned from retrieving his/there model(s).  The program does not tell the CD to check that all fliers are present on the flight line,   The program states when the contest can be delayed, and there is nothing there regarding delaying because of retrieval problems.
NO, if one or two fliers are missing the CD will start the round without the delay.  If a flyer has just returned with his model and is in the process of moving his equipment to his next assigned pole, which could be at the other end of the flight line, the CD will start the round on schedule.
Now maybe if 10 or 12 flyers are late returning from retrieving the CD may think about delaying the start of the round............ but I contend, and correctly contend, the CD will be hesitant to delay any round start times, as any delay impacts the other event that is flying that same day, and impacts the flyoff schedule throughout the remainder of that day!!!   The CD will not do that!!
If the CD WOULD delay the start of the round, does he do it only when 10 or 12 return late from retrieving and not for the one or two?   Are not the one or two fliers that are late returning from a retrieval just as important as the 10 or 12 who returned late????
I am saying again that the time frames laid out in the proposed program just are not realistic!  Let me include here a statement from another email I received regarding the proposed program.  I am not the only one who has studied your proposal and have seen it's glaring problems.   
"Another problem of course is trying to hold the previous day's 10 minute round flyoff, the next day BEFORE that day's events get started!  This definitely will not work.  Depending upon each class, EITHER the flyoff will include those who are later expected to be timing the real day's events (and who may or may not get back in time to discharge their duties), OR they will be in a 10 minute flyoff and then have to get ready at the assigned pole position (which likely will be different than they just flew-off from) to start their own second-day, 7 rounds, plus more evening flyoffs, contest.  Again, I cannot imagine this could possibly work without seriously disadvantaging the competitors involved, ie, the top candidates for a Team Place."
It appears that  the TSC did not take into consideration the following real life facts:
The weather..... it will dramatically impact retrieval time, it alone dictates the direction the models drift, and how far they drift  and there are some directions at Lost Hills that do not allow quick retrieval.. Aram said that Lost Hills is the easiest retrieving field in the Country........... okay, but there are still difficulties involved.  Saying it is not as bad as retrieving west over the canal and into the swamp at Palm Bay does not resolve anything.
Moving equipment on the flight line........ With 30 entries in an event, the flight line is 300 meters long.  It takes time to move your equipment and models that far if you are at one end of the line and then have to move everything to the far end.  This could take 10 to 15 minutes, and then you have to prepare your model for the start of the next round.   All of this time is part of the 35 minute retrieval period.  The TSC (through the programs schedule) owes the flyer sufficient time to fly in the round, regardless of when in the round he flies, time to retrieve his model, and time to move his equipment and models to the next pole, and time to prepare his model for the next round, prior to the start of the round, so he can compete equally with the other fliers in his event.    
If the TSC do not allow the fliers sufficient time, (and they have not) then the TSC has not provided a program that will pick the best team possible to represent the USA at the World Championships.  The TSC is tasked to do just that by AMA in their blue book!!! 
SAFETY......... Everything done at the finals must be accomlished safely, I'm sure you agree with that statement.  If the program forces the flyers to rush everything, his flying, his retrieving, moving his equipment........... bad things can happen, especially in the retrieving...... in the pits, in the big crop fields, (know this, the flyers are going to take their bike into the fields if there are time constraints), the farmers are not going to like this, the Academy of Model Aeronautics is not going to want to hear of a safety problem or injury, that could have been avoided by giving the fliers the sufficient time they require.  Do you understand what I just said?????
I am going to step out here and question just who on the committee came up with these time frames and schedule.  The only one on the committee who has any experience in 1) running a finals, and/or 2) running a large contest (the MaxMen World Cup Contest) with large flyoffs is George Batiuk.    How much was George involved?  Yes, there are a few others who have run smaller contests but a event entry of 10 with few flyoffs does not give the experience required to determine our finals flying schedule.  And I say this with a smile but I am serious when I say disregard input from a F1A flyer who thinks moving his equipment is riding to the next pole with his tow reel.
Mike McKeever said the NO vote I called for would mean that we would be stuck with last years team selection program.  I say that is absolutely not true.  A NO vote would tell the TSC to correct this proposed program with realistic time frames and to send it out again for approval which it would probably get.  That could be accomplished in a very short time frame!
However the one thing I cannot understand is why the proposed program was so late in being presented to the program entrants for consideration.  The normal schedule is for the proposed program to be presented to the entrants by the middle of January, 6 weeks after the in-person meeting.  The program was not mailed out from HQ AMA until March 11th.  Why not, if the program was considered so difficult to put together, (it is not, I put 2 of them together by myself when I was chairman of the TSC) then I see that we do not have the experience and expertise required on the TSC, or those who want to be involved, to accomplish what AMA tasks them to do.
And just yesterday I received my 2013 Team Selection Program entry form for a program that is suppose to begin 1 April.  What program.
Roger Simpson

Roger Morrell