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- Category: Archive 2010
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- Woodhouse on Ice
- Well done David - even in Mongolia
- Are restricted events really needed
- Near TN
- Rule Changes are a zero sum game **** Featured Article ****
- Restricted Models another POV
- F1A for sale
- More Stuff for Sale
Woodhouse on Ice
Guys
A few images from the Holiday on Ice
http://www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk/hoi2010.htm
Michael Woodhouse
Well said David- even in Mongolia
Are restricted free flight events really needed?
The British have proposed a series of light-FAI events that de-emphasize technology. Banning auto surfaces is offset by longer tow lines, longer engine runs and heavier rubber motors. These models would be simple enough to be built/assembled, and definitely much cheaper than factory made FAI models. It is hoped that these events will bring back many FAI fliers that have dropped out as well as new comers.
In the States we have non-FAI free flight events called Nostalgia, NFFS and AMA power events. Nostalgia events are limited to published designs with a cutoff date. NFFS events are somewhat similar to the proposed restricted events. But these differ in two critical aspects: requiring the builder of the model – keeping them simple – and flown to the AMA format of three flights at your leisure.
Implicit in the British proposal are wood and balsa models, not servo-less locked-surface CF models which might be 10-25% cheaper. (I have no doubt that the latter would dominate if these events ever become popular.)
Restricted models are only competitive with FAI models during the standard 3-miniute max rounds. Parity in longer maxes requires longer lines, longer engine runs and heaver rubber motors, creating administrative and trimming nightmares.
One might confine restricted models to juniors and seniors (over 50 or 60) but my observations are that the juniors keenly want to fly the top of the line FAI models. CIAM has also attempted to create simpler events for juniors such as F1P, flown by a few fliers worldwide. The experience of restricted events in Britain was disappointing - producing a handful of fliers, so why export this concept?
Maybe FAI flying is too demanding, making it difficult to fly events simultaneously, enter without buying models or come back after not flying for a few years. But we might have already solved this issue nationally, by our “local” free flight events in the States or the British slow power events. So taking a broader view leads to no rule changes – at least until the next rule cycle.
Aram
Near TN
Dan Berry
Rule changes are a zero-sum game.
Roger,
Jim Bradley makes an interesting point. In fact a very illustrative example of his premise already exists in the F1 events. If one compares F1B to F1G, the big difference is that F1G only restricts rubber and airframe weight, while F1b has area/loading restrictions as well . At least at the national level, F1G remains a diverse event, and no one approach is dominant. The proliferation of commericially produced models is evident, but they have not proven to be overwhelmingly superior. And among the commercial designs there are a range of sizes, functions and construction methods. Conversely, F1B's are incredibly similar in size, planform, construction, and function. Even home made models are strikingly similar to the Andriukov, Vivchar, et. al. approach.
But we must step back a bit:
If anyone's stated goal is to "increase participation" then they should focus on outreach and recruitment. Rule changes are a zero-sum game. Attrition is the reason participation in any and every event is low.
Rome is burning and we are discussing whether to include both fiddlers AND cellists in the fire dept.
Ross
Limited Technology Models-another point of view
As I ponder the restricted technology rules, I had to ask myself…”what is the purpose?”
On the surface, the purpose is to create entry-level events to draw future FAI modelers into the fold. It is somewhat daunting to decide you want to be an F1C flyer and then sink about $10 grand into a fleet of models, etc…just to be competitive. So, we propose “reduced technology” models so one can try it out.
I have a different point of view about that. It is not a unique problem in FAI, but throughout all of free flight. The history of creating “smaller” events, F1H, F1J, etc. didn’t solve the problem. It only created duplicity of a different size. And didn’t make a future flyer feel any more comfortable. If a prospective FAI flyer is out there, he should be able to fly FAI in an “entry level” competitive event with traditional skills. But what makes FAI different and why should anyone want to fly it? The current AMA rules basically can be an FAI ship without the weight requirements.
We, the Magnificent Mountain Men saw this some years back. Ken Phair, a former F1C team member and the then president of our club came up with the idea of the Dynasty Cup, which was to allow standard AMA free flight models to compete within their own rules, but be flown in an FAI environment….Rounds. His thinking was to encourage flying a model in the FAI format and hence entice a flyer to step into FAI flying. Experience the FAI format, do not be afraid of it. It’s been a rousing success and our annual 14 rounder is the test case.
The gist is to get flyers to experience flying in an FAI environment without having to jump into the hi-tech, hi-buck scheme of things without trying it out first. The leap into “flying FAI” from ground zero isdaunting.
Regarding creating a new restrictive class of events, evaluate the current rules. What rules need to be modified to not frighten off a prospective FAI flyer? The de-tuning of a model so to allow those prospective modelers into FAI still overlooks using the FAI format of rounds as the enticement too. Rounds are a different challenge altogether and a major challenge of FAI..
Don’t try to handicap the technology, but make any model be simple and competitive. Why shouldn’t a Lucky Lindy be competitive in this new event? Modern materials of construction are currently available to everyone, but not necessary, so why try to eliminate them? Carbon will enhance the integrity of that Lucky Lindy and allow a better engine than a greenhead. Similarly, RPM limits is actually a great equalizer…it’s the same bar for everyone. The flyer with the squeeze off timer should be competitive in this event. The British proposal attemps to do just that. Keeping the model configurations consistent with the all out FAI model serves the purpose and it’s a small step into the full blown event.
One does not want to create another FAI event challenging only those that now fly it. The same for all F1 classes…those good flyers need to think of developing a rules set that allows the new guy to be encouraged to fly FAI rather than be scared off. Somewhere, the true pundits of FAI will come up with a good set of realistic simple rules that make FAI flying achievable instead of daunting for most everyone interested. And, is it a far reach to incorporate vintage FAI models into this new event? Probably not, but, a common set of rules needs to be established, not a sliding scale of them.
If you were encouraging a prospective FAI flyer, what would you tell him to not scare him off? It reminds me of a model show I did at a Boy Scout meeting. The RC dad tried to impress all the other parents and kids on his model costing a thousand dollars. I told them my Sparky cost $5 and you could get one at K-Mart...plus I flew it in the gym...afterward, they all gathered around me. The here and now is what will attract flyers, not the prospect of time and money...that comes later with desire.
For a restrictive FAI event, reduce the model sophistication while encouraging the flying the FAI format of rounds so all will want to participate. Flying in rounds is just that challenge. That is the FAI unique environment. An entry and stepping stone event is what is needed, not a scaled down one. They exist as F1J and F1P already.
Just my humble opinion.
Editor of "The Max-Out" Newsletter of
The Magnificent Mountain Men FF Club of Colorado
F!A for sale
I have a Mechanical Baby Al in good condition available for sale at
$475 plus shipping or trade. I am interested in a Vivchar Suprima or
equivalent Vivchar F1B. Please contact Randy Reynolds at 719 599-8761
or at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
More Stuff for Sale
1) F1A Tchop Type Hook. Asking $40.
2) F1H Complete Wooden Model Kit. Just requires assembly. Asking $40.
3) F1A Selig timer. Asking $25.
If anyone needs any specific information or would like to see pictures,
Chris
.........
Roger