SEN 1465

Table of Contents - SEN 1465

  1. F1A World Champ Trophy Repair
  2. Q Energy
  3. International explanation
  4. A young man's view on Team Selection
  5. Dave's view in Team Selection and world Champs participation.
  6. The Honorable member for Detroit rebutts
  7. A perspective of Motivations and luck
  8. Finals comment #177
  9. Editor

F1A World Champ Trophy Repair

Dear friends.


    In 2009 in Croatia I’ve got the F1A World Championship trophy in very bad condition. Main problem was in the middle of the cup, near thin waist. It was a big fatigue crack at the thin-walled body. Also it was many others damages.

    I asked my friend Anatoly Grechin to repair the trophy. For this it was necessary totally cut it in the waist, make a special equipment to fix a right surface for the body, then solder together again, polish... Also he did and installed a special parts inside the body to protect the waist zone. He did some other works to fix the small glider, gap in the stone, upgraded the box for the cup.

    Now he has finished the work and the cup is in fine condition.

    I would like to say for Anatoly thanks a lot from all free flight community for his excellent, very delicate big job. May be somebody remember him. Anatoly took part in F1C USSR team in 1965, Finland and 1969 Austria World Championship.


Best wishes, Sergey Makarov.

Q energy


Apropos Energy Limiter problems at the F5D world champs, I suggest you look
at the F5D UK website and read the blog on the 2010
world champs. You'll also see photos of the test equipment necessary for
checking limiters, and people peering at computer screens while tapping away
on keyboards - is this what model flying has come to?

I like Klaus's proposal for motor weight control, but feel that the proposed
limits are a bit too low.


Peter Tolhurst

Editor's comments -

Peter thanks for the reference

I looked at the blog and gathered that a number of particpants had to tune the EL's to match the organizer's test equipment. I do not see much difference between that and a F1B person weighing a motors on the officail scales to make sure all is kosher.  I do not see a lot of difference in peering a computer screen and honering over a pair of scales, the latter mechanical or electronic.  I.e. boring but necessary prep

It did appear that there was some possible issue with the EL's  firmware, it would seem that's in the same category as the over sized Rossis.  I.e. a reputable supplier screwed up. In this because it's firm ware and the EL was checked before the event it was possible to regress a release and conform with the rules, obviously not possible in the case of the Rossi.

I was interested in that the checking equipment seemed to be a bucket of water, is this to keep it cool or provide a large mass to keep the temp stable?  or am I way off base ?

More comments welcome.

International explanation

Firstly an apology to our international readers about the lengthy discussion over the US team selection process.  I know that each country has it own way of doing things and  others have just as many arguments as we do in the USA.

A number of people from outside the USA indirectly in our selection process by helping friends or customers who are contestants or helping the organizers by timing so have some interest in the proceeding.  I'm sure that you will agree  as do many of the contestants with the observation made by Biggles that as a FAI free flight contest it is one of best and closely fought ever after a World Championship.

The USA is a very large country and it is hard to run the contest in a manner that is fair to everyone, permits general particpation and selects the best team to represent the country in a World Championship. While the current process may seem flawed to some, it has come a long way from one finals that was run from  a small field by people who did not understand FF and resulting in the death of particpants in a small plane crash when they were looking for their models in crops.

A young man's view on the team selection.

I have been watching the team selection discussion with great interest. I personally think that moving to a multi-contest format would be a great thing for the sport. Not only will it help ensure that we send the most prepared team each cycle, it will also keep the fliers engaged in the two years between current finals. I think this is especially important when it comes to the younger generation of modelers. There are so many things happening in life with careers, families, Pitts Specials :-), etc. that it is easy to get pulled away from the models. By having short term goals to look forward to every couple of months, it will do a great deal to motivate people to stay active year round. I also believe that adding an additional site such as Muncie is a great thing. It will increase travel and participation, give the non West coaster's a chance to compete on their home turf, and it will force some fliers to be pulled out of their comfort zone a bit which will only improve the level of competition across the board. All of this coupled with the fact that the program is running out of funds and people/organizations to run the finals, it seems to me that adopting a "best 3 out of 6" or similar system is the best thing that we could possibly do.

Austin Gunder




Dave's view on the Team Selection and World Champs particpation.

I have been reading all of the proposals for improving the USA team so that all of the VERY best flyers can qualify without being lucky.  So now some want an Americas' Cup Marathon event to choose the top flyers. 

Well, what happened to the fun sport of flying model airplanes?  It has always been fun to go to a contest and do well with a bunch of luck thown in and win, and especially with the possibiilty to win a free trip to the World Championships.  But us schlocks who don't happen to live where the only good enough field in the country resides are not considered to be good enough to go to the World Championships, then why bother to make the one trip to a qualifying contest?

I think you guys should stick to the system that is in place, and not try to make this a sport of the PROFESSIONALS!

I  plan to see what all comes up at the December meeting and discussions, and maybe if this new PROFESSIONAL program is adopted, won't bother to sign up for the program next time.  Let the PROFESSIONALS pay their own way to the World Champs.

Maybe if the PROFESSIONALS in the USA were so good, they would build their own models and designs!  I can only think of a couple who actually do yet.  I don't think the USA team goal should be to come up with a winning team.  It should be a group of guys hoping to do well at the World Champs, and having fun even if they don't win!

As a matter of fact, my first successful A-2 was the "Inch Worm" design put out by Contest Kits in England.  I built the first one in 1958.  It was run over by a bus prior to the 1959 NATS, but I patched it back together and placed 3rd at the Los Alamitos NATS.  Built the second one in 1959, and placed first with it at the 1960 NATS.  Well I just built another last Spring, and it was more fun flying that than an F1A purchased from the Ukraine.

Let's keep to the single Finals Event for choosing a team, and make the next one at Muncie in the Summer time!

Back to the work shop to build some good old models

Dave Edmonson



The Honorable member for Detroit rebutts - Bill Shailor 

In response to Roger Simpson's latest post, I wasn't referring to any
one particular proposal as Rube Goldbergesque. What I was referring to
is the biennial exercise FAI flyers go through before the team that is
selected actually gets the chance to compete. In terms of the
discussions and proposals, there are merits and drawbacks. The most
obvious one to me is that there are no flying fields currently available
east of the Mississippi that will accommodate seven three minute flights
with any degree of predictability. In Muncie, if winds are out of the
east or west, it is a two minute field. Consequently, the prospect
exists that one of the contests would involve flyers getting two minute
maxes and being on par with those who had to fly for three minutes
somewhere else.

The added issues of consistency of contest management/ compliance with
Program Rules and finding Contest Directors willing to run these events
(which takes them out of being able to participate in the Program) make
a multiple venue selection process difficult.

Given these problems, then the next question is whether all the contests
should simply be held at Lost Hills. Ignoring for the moment that what
you would have is a single Finals site, spread over a couple of years,
makes participation for anyone who doesn't live within driving distance
financially out of the question. I figure it costs a minimum of $1,500
per trip out to Lost Hills. If someone has to go up to six times, that
comes to $9,000. At those prices, some folks may consider the cost as

A perspective of motivation and luck

A little story about motivation.
Imagine two workers.
One is told by the manager:
"Work hard. In the end of the year I will evaluate your performance,
and if you did well you will get raise."
Another one is told by his manager:
"Work hard. In the end of the year I will roll the dice, and if you
are lucky you will get raise."
Make your choice...

Alex Andriukov

Finals comment #177 - or - Don't Forget the Geezers

As a charter member of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), can't really find my card or remember the handshake; Roger's* point about retrieval equipment as a must have for finals site selection is a biggey I think for many of us.  Please remember us geezers when planning what ever the new format might be.  Thank you all for keeping the dialog alive and my best to the TSC committee.
Mike Roberts

* Simpson

Editor/Moderators's Comments

So interesting input in this issue :-

Dave presents two different different? views - is it a contest for professional sportsmen? or are we just having fun and winning a trip to the World Champs as a bonus? In any event Dave reminds us that we should at least be enjoying what we are doing if not having fun!  Incidently if we are just having fun should be we get bent out of shape if we don't get that bonus.?

and Dave while he might not classify himself as a schlock, one of this year's F1A team members does fall into Mr Roberts category and lives on the schlock side of the Rockies or where ever the line falls, and used some age and cunning to beat a bunch of non-schlock professional sportsmen.

Bill is correct in pointing out that increasing the number of events could increase the cost , in a previous issue Alex used the counter argument by saying that he spent a week at Lost Hills before the finals but would/could not for each of the selected contests.  Actually the only reason why Alex would not spend a week before each selected contest is because he has to work and is not yet in the Geezer category.   I do question Bill's costs for going to Lost Hills - us regular people don't fly first class or rent an Escalade as a chase vehicle.

The underlying idea in selecting a small number of notable contests is that most serious people do to those anyway

Also very interesting perspective from former World Junior Champ, Austin Gunder. It's Austin and those younger than him we need to encourage.  the Junior team starts this but we need those next steps.  So thanks to Austin for his input.

And Mr Roberts you're OK most of the people on the TSC are Geezers ...

Roger Morrell