SEN1192 11 March 2008
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Table of Contents - SEN 1192 - 11 March 2008
This messge was re-sent because on an operational error by our service provider. Some people will get it twice.- Match Jon for the USA Junior Team Fund
- Vintage Thoughts
- and from Sardinia !
- Black Magic Timers and the Airtek Radio DT morphs to ethics and slopes- Part 1
- 2008 Istanbul Cup
Match Jon for the USA Junior Team Fund
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger. I got this note from Jon Davis today. Please post asap. gbv
Hi George,
Did Jim Parker talk to you about a donation? I sent him an e-mail
about it right after the MaxMen. I will donate up to $1,500 with the
stipulation of matching funds. You can go ahead and get this out so
that people can start committing to donating. Hopefully this will
bring in at least $3,000 assuming that the matching funds will be
forth coming from other modelers and sources.
I'll be at the SCAT annual so if you are going to be there we can
talk more about it.
Jon
Vintage Thoughts
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Dear Roger,
I read with interest Hector Diez’s recent suggestion for flying Classic A2 gliders:
“I believe we can simplify this by setting a minimum of rules.
1) Nordic A2 size and weight.
2) Straight tow.
3) No composites structure or reinforcements.
4) 50 meters tow line under 2 Kg tension.”
I wanted to mention that Classic Towline Glider (NFFS rules) will be flown at the annual Inter-Cities meet hosted by the Balsa Bugs at the Muncie site June 20-22, 2008. The classic towline event will be flown on Sunday June 22. Note that the NFFS rules have different model specifications and allow new designs and modern materials. The NFFS rules can be found on the NFFS website: http://freeflight.org/ under the Competitions tab.
Regarding Hector’s proposed rules, I would suggest that he drop rule #3 since it is difficult to enforce, and many old designs have well known weak spots that would benefit from some carbon fiber. Dick Mathis’ 1969 Scarab used a fiberglass fishing rod blank for the fuselage boom. Is that a “composite”? How about CA glue? I personally favor allowing modern materials to improve old designs. Note that in OTHLG the fuselage must maintain the original shape and moments, but not cross section or materials. A Huglet B is much more fun to fly when you can reinforce the tail boom with some carbon fiber to keep it from breaking off in front of the stabilizer.
Hector also may not be aware of some of the history and potential pitfalls regarding his suggested event.
In the April 1992 issue of the NFFS Free Flight Digest I published a letter suggesting the following rules:
1) F1A model dimensions and weight.
2) Straight tow.
3) Dethermalizer.
4) Radio transmitter or audio noisemaker to aid retrieval.
My suggestion was criticized by a prominent F1A flyer in a rebuttal letter published in the June-July 1992 issue of the Digest and I was also taken to task verbally at the 1992 Nationals by another prominent flyer who took issue with my assertion that a circle-tow A1 glider was an expert airplane ill suited for beginners.
I had made at least two mistakes:
1) I had used the term “straight tow” to describe the technology. The published rebuttal focused primarily on the fact that it is impossible to tow a glider in a straight line, a fact with which I agree. The intent was to simplify the technology by using a two-position autorudder, which is what I should have said. As far as I was concerned, the contestant could tow his model any way he wanted to/could, including in circles. The limitation was to the technology, not to the flight path of the glider. There was never any intent to limit the flight path of the model, only to simplify the technology used to achieve it.
2) I suggested that such an entry level event might increase interest and participation in F1A, much as one might argue that P-30 might increase participation in Coupe and Wakefield . This was a serious mistake, as it clearly engendered resentment on the part of some F1A flyers. Perhaps my suggestion was viewed as meddling in the affairs of others, but there was no such intent. What I should have said was that such an event would be fun and interesting in its own right, affording those who found that type of airplane fun to fly an opportunity to compete. My suggestion that the old gliders and designs orphaned by the circle-tow-and-bunt technology could again emerge from storage/oblivion and be flown at contests was also derided.
That was sixteen years ago. Since then the Nostalgia movement has grown to include rubber and towline glider events. The establishment of auto-surface-free AMA gas events is additional testament to the fact that many flyers prefer events where technology is limited to simplify the models. It’s about having an event for the type of model you find enjoyable to fly, and for many of us limited technology models are more appealing.
I’m happy to see the popularity of such limited technology events growing, but a little sad that it has taken so long for towline glider. I was in better shape for towing gliders sixteen years ago. The harsh response I received for what was offered as a constructive suggestion remains one of my saddest Free Flight memories.
In closing I want to appeal to all of you to use each other kindly when debating the merits of some new idea or suggestion. You can do a lot of damage by reacting with anger or hostility to one of your fellow flyers. We need each other if Free Flight is to survive, and modelers have a lot of alternatives to Free Flight (e.g. RC Soaring for gliders) if they decide to go elsewhere for their model flying enjoyment. As George Perryman used to say: “Be nice to each other out there, we’re all we’ve got.”
Here’s wishing Hector and Lee a successful and fun event!
Thermals,
Andrew Tomasch
And from Sardinia !
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Dear Hector
I've read with great interest your letter in the SEN Issue n° 1190 of 8 March and, even if in a different part of the world, I do have the same ideas.....
The Russian ready made models completely destroyed Free Flight ( I have nothing against Russians of course: but how many youngsters are currently seen in the free flight flying fields, nowadays?) and the reason for I left alone free flight was the impossibility to compete with those monsters, as I never accepted the ,dea of flying a model that was not designed and made completely by myself.
This is a model I did design in the '90, all made of wood, except tail boom, and, if not for the circle tow, it should meet the rules uou mentioned in that article.
Part of the drawing and photos were published by the British Magazine "Aeromodeller", years ago, in the next days I will search for it and I will send you, should you be interested. Excuse for the poor scan.
[Pictures not included in SEN]
For the rules,I should add one, I think very important:
A) The Flyer must be, on his own Honour, the Builder of the model.
So, by my personal point of view, I think that the most difficult thing for a Sunday flyer as I used to be, it is not the building with carbon and kevlar itself, as I did more models of the same design with that technology, that can be done easily, but to have to do with circle tow, zoom launch, wing wigglers and so on, things all requiring a professional skill and equipment to build but, much more, and a tremendous amount of time and effort to adjust to perfection, not an easy task to perform in particular when the next A2 flyer is about 500 mile far away, with the sea in between..... ( I live in a tiny Island in the middle of the Mediterranean...)
That could be solved by this rule:
5) All parts of the model must stay in a fixed position during the tow. After launching the model, just a reasonable amount of rudder movement is permitted. The stabilizer movement is permitted just to dethermalize. The tow hook must be open and in line with the line of symmetry of the model.
Cheers for now
Antonello Ruscazio
Sardinia Island,
Italy
Black Magic Timers and the Airtek Radio DT morphs to ethics and slopes- Part 1
From From the NFFS Bulletin board with words by Parker, CHE,Morrell, Crowley and the Leaper
Black Magic and Bauer RDT - Jim Parker
I had one of the original Bauer RDT but did not use it much. I had a difficult method of installing the receiver- difficult to move from model to model. I do most my flying at Lost Hill with a motorcycle and never saw a real need. I become a believe in 2005, Argentina seeing McKeever and Van Nest optimize their practice flying. I return and reworked my models to use the easy external plug on and off. In 2006, the RDT become legal. I learn the hard way. At the 2006 NATs, with RDT installed and transmitter in my pocket, I did the classic " did not realized I had unlatched and bunted down, recovered at 30 feet". I watched as the model drifted down the slope to the brick buildings below when it occurred to me that I could RDT the model and save it from a sure crash. After pushing the button and saving the model, I realized that if I had RDT the model right after the bunt, I would likely be less than 20 second flight.
At Livotto's later in the year, I had a similar flight but did think quickly enough to DT and get the re-flight. Some of my fellow competitors did not think it was "sporting" to do such a thing". Interesting, those critical do not have RDT (yet) and I dropped a later round (Instant Karma?). Perhaps I should have set this up as a separate string but let's move to the more technical aspect of setting the Bauer RDT with a Black Magic timer. Here are a few points I noted after setting up the new Bauer RDT on the standard Magic 3 servo timer and jotted the following which may be of help to some.
Now with RDT being "legal" it is no longer necessary to mount the receiver on the out side of the model to display to the world if you have RDT on or not.
I made an extension jumper cable with the standard RC servo 3 pin connector on each end to position the RDT receiver on the wing wiggle servo. You can place the receiver were ever. Hobby shops also sell a variety of pre-made jumpers from the RC guys.
Actually on the timer side of the jumper cable, I removed the pins from the plastic pin case and put heat shrink tubing on each connector. I did this because I used the new timer box Roger sells- I cut the small, thin upper top portion off the box so I can install and remove the timer with the box secured to the fuselage. The standard plastic 3 pin case interferes with this timer removal / installation. You can skip this but then you will need to first remove the box from the fuselage (2 screws) and make all you connector mates with the timer in the box-- not easy, that's why I made this modification.
Drilled a small hole in the top of the fuselage, slipped a 2 inch piece of small wire insulation on the antenna and secured the receiver with tape. Be sure to get the wiring correct- most important is the red +v is the center pin on the receiver-- it is very hard to get the smoke back into these little jewels.
RDT Receiver: Ken marks one of the outside pins with a black dot-- grnd.
So: Grn, +v, Signal
Standard Black Magic 2 or 3 servo, from Roger's instruction sheet;
2nd row of pins (Furthest from the circuit board) starting from the right (next to the programming jack)
Servo2 signal
Servo2 +v
Servo2 grnd
Servo3 sig
Servo3 +v
Servo3 grnd
RDT grnd
RDT +v
RDT signal
(I believe some older MB timers may have the RDT grnd and +v swapped-- I'll send this to Roger for his comment)
I understand from Ken, that as long as the +v goes to the center RDT receiver pin, if the grnd and signal wires get reversed, you will not hurt the receiver- obviously the system will not work.
Setting the program. In the More screen "Ext Int" (external interrupt) box is checked and External D/T line is set to "10"- look at the More screen and you'll see what I'm talking about. This means that when you press the RDT transmitter button, the program moves to line 10. Line 10 is set at zero time, "D" box highlighted and the servo position number for the same DT position number you use at your standard DT line. One mistake I and others made is setting the RDT line (line 10) to a longer time (i.e. 180 set). You press the button and the RDT signals works- sends the program to line 10 were it sits there counting down 180 sec before DT'ing while you're thinking the RDT is broken. Lesson- keep the RDT line time set at zero and if you need to change the servo position number, you must change in Bo places.
I mentioned tape was used to secure the RDT receiver to the wing wiggler servo. You must make sure it stays in place. I know a flyer that his only drop at the last finals was when his transmitter shifted and jammed the hook resulting in a stall to the ground. I'm using a small bulkhead that is secured to the fuselage to form a secured area for the RDT unit.
My new MK models have their RDT. It has 2 buttons on the Transmitter. #1 to DT and #2 to extend the DT time 30 second. This #2 button is worth the price of admission. Oh what it's like to launch in firm Lost Hills evening air and watch your model glide. A push of the #2 button extends this thrill. At the last Ike's, I was late to the award ceremony because the #2 button kept getting pushed resulting in a 13 minute flight, never above 75 meters.
M&K timer does not have the DT time set from tow hook manipulation, I have made this request to the factory. On one fly-off flight this year I did not have time to re-set my DT and used the #2 button to extend the flight to make the Max. Was I in violation of the FAI rules???
This should get this string hopping.
Thermals and #2 button pushing, JIM
_________________
Jim Parker
NFFS FAI Forum Master
Subject: F1A RDT rule - Jim Parker
For reference; from latest FAI rules:
3.1.2 F1A models may use radio control only for irreversible actions to restrict the flight (dethermalisation). Any malfunction or unintended operation of these functions is entirely at the risk of the competitor.
Seems my only defense is that there was no "action" if "action" is defined as something that changes the aerodynamic configuration of the model.
Think I'll be sure to set my timer for FO flights for now on. Maybe start law correspondence school.
Thermals, JIM
_________________
Jim Parker
NFFS FAI Forum Master
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Jim Parker
Subject: Older Black Magic Timer hook-up for RDT - Roger Morrell
Jim
Wiring for a timer older than 2004 is more complicated than you
say. That the last pin in the row is signal and the one next to
it common ground. You should get power off one of the positive
servo leads.
There is information on the Magic Timer web site
www.magictimers.com
Roger Morrell
subject: Input from CHE as EoB has gone over
I have a Bauer RDT and managed to melt it after picking up the WRONG BMT wiring diagram ! I think its a great system but have suggested two things: 1) have the extend glide function as you describe and 2) have a large sign that says 'Switch it Off" as I keep on leaving it switched one and have wasted one battery already.
Ken says the extend glide function requires integration with the Magic-Man and hence is not a trivial exercise. I use the Multiclass timer with a 3min glide extension button and find, like you, its perfect for just watching the puppies fly. However, I'm certain the use in contests has been discussed before and is illegal as the radio link can only control dethermalisation and glide extension isn't that.
subject: FAI Law School and the Second Button - Roger Morrell
Jim
My first observation is that you fly the wrong class, are not a former World Champ and probably come from the wrong country,.... but the most effective argument for getting anything revolutionary into the rules e.g. the original Radio DT for F1C - is safety.
The second is that at the recent Free Flight Forum in the UK where I presented a paper on Electronic Timers and the like there was some discussion about Frederick Aberlenc's timer. This timer has the capability to alter the trim of the airplane from a wrist mounted transmitter and has more than 2 buttons. In the meeting Ian Kaynes commented that the FAI "management" knew of this device, were aware that it was outside the rules and were waiting for someone to protest.
The manufacture of the Multi-class timer, also known as the Danish timer has moved from Denmark to Switzerland but the evolution of the device has not really continued.
Many of the original users of the Danish timer are now using Frederick's timer. Clearly a bunch of eminently respectable gentlemen who would not use the 3rd or 4 th button let alone the second. However in the Free Flight Forum discussion there was a comment that a certain other gentleman who flies a different class and is well known for ethical elasticity has not yet discovered Frederick's device or it may be to big to fit in his airplane...
Roger
subject: FAI Radio Controlled "Free Flight& quot; - Paul Crowley
Well ladies and gentlemen it looks as if we have started down the slippery slope. It didn't take long did it. What started out to be a solution to a safety issue (crashing F1Cs,as I recall), has become an apparent accepted contest strategy by at least few or our fellow sportsmen. Does this bother you? It should. You know there are a lot of RC duration events on the books including FAI if that's what you want. Look I have no problem with RDT when it is used for the purpose intended but using it for any other purpose must be considered an affront to the very spirit we call Free Flight not to mention the FAI Sporting Code.
Respectfully yours,
Paul Crowley
subject: RDT usage - sweepettelee
For the record, I am in full agreement with Paul on this subject,
as some of you know.
And do not own an RDT, btw.
Ciao,
Lee
_________________
FLY, MAX, WIN!
The Leeper
subject: let's not throw the baby out with the bath water .. – Roger Morrell
There is no doubt that Radio D/T is a big advantage. It has safety implications and has major green and financial implications. radio d/t lets us test at local sites without driving long distances. It will even let us hold contests at those sites. One can say that the radio unit is expensive but it is cheap when you look at the cost of an airplane. I regard the biggest cost of a winning airplane my time that I have spent in trimming that airplane, not the money paid to Vivchar, Stamov, Verbitsky, Andruikov, Nelson, etc ..
The ability to extend the d/t after the max is attained is a model and even flying site save feature. Because it stops the model landing in a bad place, that could include power wires or a major highway. The case that Jim did of extending his d/t before the flight was over was technically incorrect but only marginally outside the spirit of the rules and I would expect a very rare likelihood.
There is no question that some people are pushing the rules and what should happen is someone lodge a protest at a World Cup meeting instead of whining. If people did not like how Jim used the radio d/t at the Maxmen - we have a process for this - open your wallet, not your mouth and lodge a protest. I believe that Jim did is within the rules, but there are other things that are not. From a personal point of view I would do that, except that it looks like sour grapes as I make on-board electronics for free flight.
I would like a protest so the rules are clarified. Ian Kaynes indicated that he was expecting someone to do that.
There is no question that if we want to keep flying free flight electronic timers are here to stay. The classic d/t fuse is no longer OK because of fire risk. The sources of the clockwork mechanisms are drying up. We can make electronic timers for simple FF cheaper than with clockwork. Electric Ff is becoming popular and with apologies to Hank Nystrom, one has to be crazy to put a clockwork timer on an electric model.
Roger
The magic man, not the radio man
subject: Slippery Slope- More on RDT – Jim Parker
One thing worse than a slippery slope is freezing to death on flat land.
The obvious solution is to set the DT time for 10 minutes and use the RDT to DT the model. The rule allows a RDT- DT before the flight time is over. Ken Bauer does this, I just have not gotten the confidence to do this-- the transmitter battery goes dead or is in the warm-up pants I just changed out of and left at the car. The purest claim that early DT is also not very Sporting-- one should not deny oneself the pleasure of marching through a muddy carrot field.
Regarding CHE suggesting for the Bauer Transmitter for an off-lock, an alternate solution is to have a beeper sounding when the transmitter is on-- this is how M&K does it-- pesky sound in your pocket eventually gets your attention-- might be a problem with those that are audibly challenged but at least one of them thinks this is evil and will deny himself of such unwarranted pleasure! Would rather march thru the aforementioned muddy carrot field.
The other silly thing I have done is panicking when I mistakenly push the LED instead of the DT button-- like I said, I learn fast.
For the record-- M&K had a "trimable" R(C)DT system, They no longer use this unit and specifically decided not to produce such units for sale for the reason Roger explained-- just waiting for protest. In their development and use, they found some but not overwhelming advantage to be able to dial in the optimal trim in a test flight before a fly-off. Guess there are some flat spots on the slippery slope.
_________________
Jim Parker
NFFS FAI Forum Master
2008 Istanbul FF Cup
1) ISTANBUL FREE FLIGHT CUP-2008
Location, date, competition categories:
“ISTANBUL FREE FLIGHT CUP-2008” will be held in June 6,7,8 2008 on the field between Kadikoy village of Saray district in Tekirdag, and Musellim village of Vize district in Kirklareli, with the below mentioned schedule and free flight model plane categories:
Date | Events |
June 6, 2008 (Friday) | Arrival to Vize district, exercise flights |
June 7, 2008 (Saturday) | Opening |
A1 (F1H), P-30 competitions | |
F1A, F1B and F1C exercise flights, registration | |
A1 and P30 award ceremony | |
Banquet | |
June 8, 2008 (Sunday) | F1A, F1B (Juniors and Seniors), F1C (Seniors) competitions |
F1A, F1B and F1C award ceremonies | |
Closure |
A1 and P30 competitions are open to all local and international competitors.
F1A, F1B and F1C category competitions are classified as World Cup in FAI competition calendar, and are open to any local and international junior and senior competitors having a 2008 FAI license.
Contact:
Name & Last name | Tel | Mobile GSM | e-Mail |
ISMET YURTSEVEN | +90 216 521 14 14 | +90 532 266 56 76 | This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. |
ISMAIL SARIOGLU | +90 216 521 14 14 | +90 532 411 46 25 | This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. |
Web site:
Competition schedule:
June 7, 2008 (Saturday): A1, P30 competitions:
10:00 – 11:30 | Registration for A1 and P30 |
10:00 – 17:00 | Registration for F1A, F1B and F1C |
11:30 – 11:45 | Opening ceremony |
12:00 – 12:55 | First round 2 minutes |
13:00 - 13:55 | Second round 2 minutes |
14:00 – 14:55 | Third round 2 minutes |
15:00 – 15:55 | Fourth round 2 minutes |
16:00 – 16:55 | Fifth round 2 minutes |
17:30 – 17:40 | First fly-off 5 minutes |
19:30 – 24:00 | Banquet, P30, A1 Award Ceremony |
June 8, 2008 (Sunday): F1A, F1B, F1C competitions:
07:00 – 07:55 | First round & nbsp; 4 minutes |
08:00 - 08:55 | Second round 4 minutes |
09:00 – 09:55 | Third round 3 minutes |
10:00 – 10:55 | Fourth round 3 minutes |
11:00 – 11:55 | Fifth round 3 minutes |
12:00 – 12:55 | Sixth round 3 minutes |
13:00 – 13:55 | Seventh round 3 minutes |
17:30 – 17:40 | First fly-off 5 minutes |
18:30 – 18:40 | Second fly-off 7 minutes |
19:00 – 19:30 | F1A, F1B, F1C Award Ceremony |
Round times, durations and flight durations may be modified by the jury depending on the weather conditions.
Participation Fees and Costs:
F1A, F1B and F1C categories (Seniors) | 50-YTL | 30-Euro |
F1A, F1B and F1C categories (Juniors) | 25-YTL | 15-Euro |
A1 and P30 categories | 25-YTL | 15-Euro |
Banquet (above 20 years old) | 40-YTL | 25-Euro |
Banquet (below 20 years old) | 25-YTL | 15-Euro |
Accommodation + Breakfast (Per day) | 35-YTL | 20-Euro |
Banquet:
The banquet will be held in June 7, 2008 (Saturday) between 19:30 – 24:00 in Saray Restaurant in Saray district. . The dinner is included in the banquet.
Saray Restaurant:
1 km on the Kiyikoy Road. Saray/Tekirdag Tel: +90 282 768 60 20
Accommodation:
Hotel name | District | Tel | Webssite |
TRAK OTEL | VIZE | +90 288 318 41 00 | |
ELIT OTEL | SARAY | +90 282 768 23 78 | |
SEZEN OTEL | SARAY | +90 282 768 05 79 |
Each room is equipped with a bathroom, WC, hot water, TV and telephone.
The price includes breakfast.
Rent A Car:
It is very easy to rent a car in the Istanbul Airport. The cost is about 40-Euro per day for a mid sized car.
Application:
The participants should apply to the competition organization committee via e-mail or fax, providing the following information. The latest date for applications is May 31, 2008.
· Name/surname:
· FAI license number:
· Competition category: F1A, F1B, A1, P30, Junior, Senior, Assistant, Spectator
· Transportation service requirement?
· Participation to the banquet?
· Accommodation?
Recommendations:
The competitor and the spectators should bring with them any requirements during the competition. Water, biscuit, hat, sunglasses, sunscreen and insecticide may be required on the field.
Rules regarding the Field:
· The settling area will be determined depending on the wind conditions.
· Any motor-vehicle is not allowed to enter in the flight area.
· The maximum care should be given to maintain the meadow area clean, and to leave intact the neighboring agricultural areas.
· Any waste should be put into trash bags.
2) LOCATION OF THE COMPETITION
“ISTANBUL FREE FLIGHT CUP” will be on the field between KADIKOY village 20 km from SARAY district in TEKIRDAG and MUSELLIM village 12 km from VIZE district in KIRKLARELI.
3) ACCESS TO THE COMPETITION AREA
KADIKOY village, which is near to the field where the competition will be held, is affiliated to SARAY district.
A) Access to KADIKOY village through E80-TEM Land route, from Bulgaria or Istanbul direction:
1) Exit from the E80-TEM Land route SARAY-VAKIFLAR.
E80-TEM Land route SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit is 135 km to Bulgaria front and 115 km to Istanbul Mahmutbey TEM pay tolls.
2) Follow the SARAY direction.
3) PEPSI site is on the left of the SARAY road.
4) After the PEPSI site on the left there is RESPA CHEMICALS site.
5) Just after the RESPA CHEMICALS site there is BEYAZKOY sign.
6) Follow the BEYAZKOY sign.
7) After BEYAZKOY, OSMANLI and SOFULAR villages you arrive to KADIKOY village.
KADIKOY village is approximately 13 km away from the E80-TEM Land route SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit.
B) Access to MUSELLIM village from VIZE district:
There is a direct road from VIZE district to MUSELLIM village.
The distance between VIZE and MUSELLIM is approximately 12 km.
C) Access to KADIKOY village from SARAY district:
There is a direct road from SARAY district to KADIKOY village.
The distance between SARAY and KADIKOY is approximately 20 km.
4) ACCESS TO SARAY DISTRICT
SARAY district is affiliated to TEKIRDAG city.
Access to SARAY district is through E80-TEM Land route.
For those coming from Bulgaria-Edirne direction, Istanbul direction of E80-TEM land route should be followed
For those coming from Istanbul direction, Edirne direction of E80-TEM Land route should be followed.
There are three exits on E80-TEM land route for access to SARAY district:
· E80-TEM CERKEZKOY exit (recommended for those coming from Istanbul direction)
· E80-TEM CORLU - CERKEZKOY exit
· E80-TEM SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit (recommended for those coming from Bulgaria direction)
For those coming from Istanbul direction E80-TEM CERKEZKOY exit is recommended. SARAY district is approximately 33 km to E80-TEM CERKEZKOY exit.
For those coming from Edirne direction SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit is recommended. SARAY district is approximately 20 km to E80-TEM SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit.
E80-TEM CERKEZKOY exit is approximately 75 km to Istanbul Mahmutbey pay tolls.
E80-TEM SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit is approximately 115 km to Istanbul Mahmutbey pay tolls.
E80-TEM SARAY-VAKIFLAR exit is approximately 135 km to Bulgaria front.
5) ACCESS TO VIZE DISTRICT
VIZE district is affiliated to KIRKLARELI city.
After reaching to SARAY district, there is a direct road from SARAY to VIZE:
............................
Roger Morrell
............................
Roger Morrell