SEN issue 1162 - 9 December 2007

Table of Contents - SEN 1162

  1. Lost Hills renewal
  2. 1951-1979 FAI Power Rules revised
  3. Washing at the EoB
  4. 12 better than 14
  5. Denver 14 for Real men


Subject: Dues Renewal

It is once again time to renew our membership to the LHFFMAA. After consideration by the Board the basic dues for 2008 will remain at $20/year, however, to renew for $20 you must send your renewal form and check in by January 15, 2008. Because quite a few flyers did not register by mail prior to last year’s Isaacson’s Winter Classic, the first contest of the year, there was a sizable bottleneck at the sign-in table cause by on-field renewals which placed an undue burden on the CD running the contest. On-field renewals throughout the year and the subsequent continual need to update AMA records is another really time consuming job. Therefore, in order to encourage early membership renewal, all renewals made after Jan. 15, 2008 and all renewals made on the field will be $25. The two year discount renewal is still $35, except, as noted, if it is made after Jan. 15, 2007 or made on the field ; then it will revert to $40/2-years ($25 + $15). There is also a yearly family discount rate for two adults, or one adult and one junior under age 18, living in the same house, of two memberships for $35. The family discount for two years is $65 ($35 + $30). The family discount after Jan. 15th for two years is $80 ($50 + $30). There is no penality for first time members. Make checks payable to LHFFMAA.
Note: Quite a few members paid for two years last year so don't send dues if you have already paid for 2008.

George Walter
LHFFMAA Sec./Treasurer
2412 Deerpark Drive
Fullerton, CA 92835
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1951 to 1979 FAI Power Rules - Revised

The response has been excellent for the 1951 to 1979 FAI Power Event. Several of the e-mail that I have received has asked questions about construction, understanding three views with little information, engines and just general information about the event. Several of these questions have made me think of several items also. With the help of past Aero Modeller’s, the OS and Rossi web sites with have found information on the production dates of the OS Max engines, Super Tiger and Rossi. From all this we have updated the rules. Two items have been added from the past. We will allow proxy flying and we will not use a flight line. If somebody is interesting in sending a proxy model for the contest in May or October please contact me before sending the model. If you are interested in the rules, send me an e-mail and I will forward you a pdf file of the rules. Also, I have made pdf files from some of the articles from Aero Modeller and will send them to you if requested.

1951 to 1979 FAI Power Event

Rules listed below are for 2008 Big Al’s and 2008 Livotto contest

December 7, 2007
FAI Power Rule History

1951 – 1955   Maximum engine displacement 2.5 cc. Fuselage X Section= total area / 80. Minimum weight, 200 grams per cubic centimeter. Maximum 20 second motor run, any fuel. Minimum surface leading, 12g/sq dm. Rise off ground.

1956 – 1957 Minimum weight, 400 grams per cubic centimeter. This rule did not go over well with the flyers and to my knowledge was never used. For this time period we will use the 1951 to 1955 rules with no cross section rule.

1958 – 1960 Current weight requirements instituted. Minimum weight 300 g/cc of engine displacement. Minimum surface loading 20 g/sq dm. Maximum 15 second motor run, any fuel.

1961 – 1965 10 second motor run, any fuel

1966 – 1970 10 second motor run, tuned pipes allowed, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

1971 – 1974 10 second motor run, tuned pipes banned, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

1975 – 1979 7 second motor run, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

Rules for 1951 to 1979 FAI Power Event

The idea for this set of rules is to let the flyer participate in the contest with his favorite model from a given year with a motor from the same time period. The flyer would then use the set of rules that governed that time period and fly against other flyers who have picked a model from a different year with a different set of rules. Over the years, the FAI rules have been adjusted to keep the model performance set to the three minute max. A Frisco Kid from 1954 using a Torp 15 with 20 seconds of motor run should be equal to a 1975 Summerwind / Rossi 15 combination with a 7 second motor run. Only time will tell if this is true. Please do not put a Rossi in a Frisco Kid. You will not be allowed to fly.

Motors: December 7th Revision

1951 - 1960 Engines, K&B, OS Max, Cox, MVVS, Moki, Webra, Pre 1960 Super Tiger, 1960 Super Tiger G20 (with 1960 printed in the side of the engine case, as used by the Italian Team at the 1960 W/C's), Diesels of that time period, etc.

1961 - 1969 Engines, OS Max, Super Tiger, TD's, K&B 64 Series, MVVS,Moki, Webra, etc

1970 -1979 Engines, Rossi, Super Tiger, Cox Conquest,Cossi's, MVVS, Moki, Webra, etc

All pre 1960 Super Tigers, and the 1960 Super Tiger G20 (with 1960 printed in the side of the engine case) will be allowed a 15 second motor run, all post 1960 Super Tiger G20's and the later G15 will be required to use a 10 second motor run. The Rossi will be allowed to use both the 10 second and 7 second motor run depending on the model selected. Tuned pipes will be allowed on a Super Tiger, or any other engine that used a tuned pipe for the 1966 to 1970 time period.

No Nelson’s or VE’s along with any other engines produced after 1979 will be allowed.


We are fortunate that so many designs are available to pick from for this event. Zaic’s books, Aero Modeller, Free Flight News, the National Free Flight Society Digest / plan service along with AMA’s plan service have many plans for models of this time period. If your selection is an original design please supply plans / photo’s of the original model. I will not have a list of models for the 1951 to 1979 period. If you select a model that is not in one of the above sources please supply a published three view or original plans.

Motor mounting does not have to follow the original design. George French used a cast aluminum motor mount on his Night Train. If you decide to build a Night Train and have one like it please use it. If you cannot find one on E-Bay or one from a fellow flyer, replace the mount with an aluminum plate.

Any glow plug may be used. Any propeller may be used. Any timer may be used. Flood off and prop brake will be allowed for all models along with any style of fuel tank.

Wings and stabs must be covered if original design had open structure; not replaced with sheeting. Sheeting must be used on the wing and stabilizer if the original design used it. No restrictions on covering material: Mica film / modern film may be used in place of tissue, silk, etc.

No aluminum / carbon D-box construction will be allowed on the wing or stab. Carbon spars and carbon-capped ribs will be allowed. No carbon only TE’s will be allowed. Balsa / carbon TE’s are allowed.

Modern fuselage construction will be allowed for any model that you select that used a rolled tail boom on the original model. If the model you selected used a box style construction for the fuselage then you need to copy this construction.

No bunting is allowed.
All models will be hand launched.

This will be a five round contest with no reduction in motor run for flyoffs. Flight times will be increased for the flyoffs.

Revision / Additions below: December 7, 2007

Some three views do not have much detail regarding construction of the model. An example is in the 1955-56 Zaic year book. On page 73 is a model with the airfoils shown and no dimensions for the wing panels or rib positions. Building this model will require the builder to scale from given dimensions on the plans along with the shown airfoils. If your choice is a model with this minimum information please insure that you bring documentation to the contest showing how you obtained the final dimensions.

Adding spars or false ribs is no problem with some of the early designs that have very minimum construction. Do not revise a straight rib design with a Union Jack style of construction.

Two piece wings will be allowed for any design. To help with airline travel you will be allowed to make a two piece wing for any design you select.

Landing gear / prop savers are the choice of the builder. No ROG or VTO will be used for safety requirements.

OS Max 1’s, OS Max II's and OS Max III's will be allowed for all models. The availability of 1’s and 11’s is very limited. Also, the power difference is very minimal between the three motors.

With the difficulty of finding diesel engines from the early 50’s replica diesels will be allowed.

Proxy flying will be allowed. The builder of the model can make arrangements for a flyer of the model / models or I will make arrangements with agreement from the builder. Please contact me before sending a model.

A competitor will be allowed to enter more than one model providing it is from a different rule set. An example would be a model from the 1954 time frame and another model from the 1970 time frame. The only requirement is paying a double entry and completing the flights in the one hour time period for each round.

A flight line will not be used. The competitors will fly from a 50 meter square box. You will be allowed to fly from any position in the box. Your choice.

Walt Ghio

1380 Elkhorn Dr.

Stockton, CA 95209
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Washing at the EoB - reprise


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:55 am    Post subject:


Many thanks for your responses. When posing the question I asked :-

"The convention on most models is to have washin on the inboard wing centre panel in order to provide thermal seeking. Why not use washout on the outer centre panel ? Has anyone tried it ? Is there any difference between the two and if so what, why and by how much ? "

Now I knew that F1Bs were going with so called 'opposite warps' but had no idea that at least some power models were doing the same. But this was not my question so I'll try again.

On F1As the convention is to have washin on the inboard wing centre panel in order to provide thermal seeking. Why not use washout on the outer centre panel ?

Lord Leeper has I think answered it; it doesn't make any difference, but maybe someone knows better ?

Wonder if SEN will steal this thread again ...........................

12 better than 14 ?

I would favour a 12 round contest. 7 rounds on first day, then 5 rounds on the second day.
This would leave time for better fly offs on second day.  The fly offs after after a 7 round day always seem
rushed, and chaotic, trying to get them finished before the daylight goes.
               Peter Watson.

Denver 14 rounder for real men

I want to expound on the Denver, Colorado 14 round contest in July.  The Denver contest is simply the best 14 round contest in the world. Unlike Lost Hills Denver has tougher air to pick and it is a real workout in terms of developing your air picking in the mile high altitude of Denver. If you think you are a hot shot FAI flyer then come to Denver and prove it. I have flown all over the world and Denver is a challenge for real men who really like to test their free flight meddle. I hate say this but the truth is that Lost Hill air picking is for sissies and air picking in Denver is for real men. I think that some of the California flyers have become too pampered with Lost Hills and they are afraid to venture out of their back yard of free flight heavan.  Take off your Lost Hills diaper and come out to some real free flight mud wrestling with the best. 

Mac the "Real Man" bigot

Roger Morrell