SEN 1010 - 3 Jun 2006

SEN issue 1010 3 June 2006

Table of Contents
F1G flying in Lost Hills - Brocks
San Diego Orbiteer Semi-Annual - Hobbs
Lorbiecki going to Iraq
FUN FLY news bulletin [for SEN] - Vartainian
request from Mikey
Light Ammusement from EoB - For info
George and Tim's Father - SloBat
Revisiting the question of F1C folder legality
Hoosier Results - Markos
F1C folder - Boutillier
Foreign Meets - Campbell
Usti 2006 - Van Wallene
Conspiring amongst the Stones -
What I really think
Wake Video
Kerger downgrades ?
Hall effect sensor

F1G flying in Lost Hills
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Flying Winter Coupe (Coupe d'Hiver) rubber models in the spring in Lost
Hills can have its problems. Spring in Lost Hills is like summer in France,
big thermals and it can be windy. This is how it was last Sunday at the
Bissonnette Memorial in Lost Hills. All the F1G flyers had fly-aways or
near fly-aways after their model had dt'ed. The models just floated away
without coming down, out of sight of the binoculars.

This is what happened to me in the 2nd fly-off round. The model dt'ed at
about .7 miles from the flight line, fairly high. It got smaller and smaller
without coming down much and was gone. I had a good bearing and started
searching the field with my Walston receiver and GPS. I was sure that my
Coupe had landed on the field. But I still went across Route 46 (3.5 miles)
and drove with my motorcycle through the almond orchard on the South side -
nothing. After searching for more than 8 hours I still did not get a radio
signal. Finally on Monday afternoon I drove South on Brown Material Road and
at 5.2 miles from the flight line where it crossed my bearing line I all of
the sudden had a weak signal. As I walked West through the almond orchard
the sweet radio signal got stronger. I went through the orchard and came to
an open field.

There was my little bird about .7 miles West of Brown Material Road, about
5° off my original bearing. I was happy. All of the sudden the long chase
had been worth the while. My F1G model had flown another 4,5 miles after the
stabilizer went into the DT mode.

The lesson learned was that when a fly-away is imminent then switching on
the tracking receiver is the most important thing one can do to determine
the actual flight time. Together with the compass bearing a good assumption
can be made where your model came back to terra firma.


San Diego Orbiteer Semi-Annual
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Sid Hobbs here, new Competition Director for the Orbiteers. I am told I
should post our contest (6/10 & 6/11) on your website. I am not having
much luck finding where I do that. Can you give me any help?

I would appreciate it very much. Thanks!


Just e-mail it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - like you did with this note]

Lorbiecki going to Iraq
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It isn't often that we have one of our own going to possible harms' way,
but my son will be going in the middle of June for a 45 day stint in Iraq.
John has been trained as a F-16 crew chief in the Air National Guard
(115th Fighter Wing in Madison, Wisconsin) as well as going to college. He
will be missing the entire summers flying but will have a different kind
of excitment. Please keep him in mind and prayers so he comes back safe.
He needs to get everything together so he can defend his world championship
next year in the Ukraine! Thanks in advance to all our friends....

FUN FLY news bulletin [for SEN]
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A FUN FLY for 12 in span Catapult Gliders will be held on
Wed evening, August 2, after the daily awards.
That would be about 5:30 PM.
Entry is FREE!!!
All those interested, sign up with me @ Control area.

Now for some easy rules:
Any 12" span cat glider, weighing 10 grams min.
Launcher per AMA CLG rules[6" handle, 18" rubber, etc]
Flying will be MASS LAUNCH STYLE, probably in
eliminator heats.
If all fliers in a heat do 120 sec they will continue to fly.
Time one, fly one, as usual, so build one, bring your
stopwatches & join the FUN!

Some prize or other is in the offing, I am told by a
person to be named later.
Stay tuned, & get to BUILDING some 12" Catapults!

We also may have a FUN FLY for regular-size CLGs,
if time & conditions allow.

See you at the NATS,
Leeper, the Fun Meister

request from Mikey
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Hello Roger;
Would you put me on the mailing list, so I can read about what is
going on. Also, would like to put an ad on for sale of 4 of my F1B's
to electric and 2 mechanical.
Let me know please. Thank you.
Thermals~~ michael

[Mikey - or amyone else just e-mail me your for sale notice,
text only no picture]

Light Ammusement from EoB - For info
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I rediscovered the e-mail I had tried to send to you last year (see below). It'
s really out of date but may ammuse when you're next waiting at the airport.

Incidentaly, I thoughts your comments on world cup contests was a positive one;
if we want to improve there must be feedback.

CHE aka EoB


Thanks for all the responses via SEN and directly regarding the surface
vibrations work. I now realise that many flyers have been doing this for
years and that there are many more variables than anticipated. For example
music suitable for one flying site is not necessary synegistic to others
and it would appear that locally derived performances are best as suggested
by Pete King wrt DLG (the chorus to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" seems
well suited incidentaly to contests on open moorland). Accordingly we have
been working with local Gaelic tune smiths here in Scotland to great effect.

I have also been contacted by the Performing Rights Society who are claiming
royalties for music performed "in a public place" ie a flying field. This
may seem like more hassle but it could be a definate advantage as these guys
are really, really strict. They arrived the other day with all manner of
equipment which they duly set up. I got out a F1J loaded with a track from
those Italian prog ockers P.F.M. for the engine run and a backwards recording
of something from Jefferson Starship for the DT off the top (great tip
Skyking !). Anyway up went the ship, perfect pattern and good DT. The guys
checked their data and rang up a bill for 39 pence based on an engine run
of 4.527 seconds. Yes, these guys are perfect timers who'll get your runs
to within a thou. ! If we all go this way there will no longer be a timekeeper
problem and besides overruns into the dust would cost you a fortune in PRS
fees encouraging better systems reliability.

Anyone got any thoughts on what to use for variable pitch props ? Also, does
exciting rubber through vibrating the fuselage in some way improve energy
release ? Me, I'm off to try some Spinal Tap turned up to '11'.


George and Tim's Father
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Hi Roger. It saddens me very much to tell you that my father has passed
away. He died Wednesday, May 24th, from a heart attack. He broke his
hip about a month ago, and it was a downhill spiral from there. My
brother, Tim, will write a eulogy for the Digest, but for now just let
me say that free flight in my life will never be the same. I miss him
terribly already! gb

Revisiting the question of F1C folder legality
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> ===========
> Peter Watson
> I recently looked at the FAI definition (Rule 3.3.1) of
> a F1C model, which is as follows,
> Model aircraft in which the energy is provided by a
> piston type motor and in which lift is generated by
> aerodynamic forces acting on surfaces remaining fixed in
> flight, except for changes of camber or incidence.
> Models with variable geometry or areas must comply with
> the specifications when the surfaces are in minimum and
> maximum extended mode.
> This rule was obviously written before folding wing F1C's
> were conceived.
> Clearly the surfaces of these models are not fixed in
> flight.
> Is the folding of the wings, simply a change in camber ?.
> It could be argued that the camber has not changed, as
> the wing panels are only connected at the hinges, and
> latch up mechanism.
> The rule obviously covers flapped wings, but I feel it is
> flawed in relation to folding wings.
> Ultimately, if a model was designed with wings that
> folded completely, inside the fuselage, for the climb
> phase, surely this could not be considered a change in
> camber.
> Am I missing something with this rule ?.

Skykieng replies, "yes".

Dear Peter, this question of yours has come up many times over many years.
Here is an edited response to a similar query that appeared in the
Dec. 2002 issue of SCAT.

>> Looking at a photo of a rubber model with folding wings (from 1943,
>> yet..) I'm now idly wondering how folders are legal in FAI classes.
>> Rules obviously set well defined, narrow limits for total
>> maximum/minimum surface area(s) to keep models on a common basis; surely
>> a F1C folder has a total area well below the minimum when configured for
>> the power phase of the flight so how is it acceptable?


There is no problem in FAI Power rules with the folder configuration as
currently used by Leonid and myself. ( Nor for Babenko's Snap Wings )
But yes, for Nordic, and Wakefield there is indeed a largish minimum
area requirement that nixes the folder idea in the bud. (Folding would be of
little use in a Wake ...but a Folder in Nordic? Wow! ...that could
make for some sensational airplanes and launches!)

The only apparent obstacle for a folder in FAI Power was for once and all
laid aside after discovering what exactly was meant by a"fixed wing"
configuration in aviation usage. The term as originated in full scale
aviation does not address the use of such as flaps or the singular folding
or unfolding of a wing but is merely a term commonly applied to
differentiate such as a HELICOPTER from whatever we first think of when
hearing the term "air-plane." (Hey! Even a swing-wing fighter is classified
as a fixed-wing aircraft!)

Now if the F1C Folder --when once unfolded at
altitude -- then did a double cross and allowed the wing to spin around and
around -- thus by default becoming an autogyro -- then THAT
adventurous act would be an obvious rules infraction requiring the cheating
flyer/designer to be hauled off by irate competitors.

All this talk about the illegality of folders puts me in a state of extreme
Considering the many years and vast effort I have expended trying out how
best to do folders it makes me miserable thinking that I might be axed and
beheaded at that very moment of getting it all together!

Billious Giesking .... AKA Skykieng

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This altimeter may be of interest to FFers.

Although they are designed for RC models, the small size and weight of
2.2 grams make it very versatile.
It runs on any voltage from 3.2 to 12 volts
To find the max altitude you just wave your finger over the LED and
count the flashes,
**** ** * = 421 feet. ( or meters if you prefer).

Please note I have not used one of these items so I don't know if it is
any good or not,
but would be interested to hear from anyone who does.

David Ackery

Mogle's Timer
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Rod Mogle what kind of timer are you supplying please?
Ed Mate

Hoosier Cup Results
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Hoosier Cup - 2006 May 20-21
The Muncie, Indiana weather for several days prior to contest weekend was
wind and rain. Evidence of the rain was seen from 'lakes' in low-lying
sections of the field, the largest of which was approximately 100 meters
Testing newly built or repaired models was out of the question on Friday
before the contest due to a persistent 10-15 mph wind from the west. However,
the winds died down overnight and Saturday turned into a glorious day for a
Free Flight contest. As the contest start time approached, the drift was
towards the south end of the field at about 7-8 mph. A 3-minute test flight
showed that the selection of the flight line at the rise next to the CL speed
pavement would result in clearing the major water hazard adjacent to Center
Drive by several hundred yards. As the day progressed, weather got better and
better through the 7 rounds. Temperatures reached into the 70s and winds
were light. Some max flights went only a few hundred yards. A few managed to
find the water, however. The flight line remained at the same location for
the seven rounds.
The winds picked up a bit after the last round and became more westerly.
The first fly off was scheduled for 5:30, but the 7-8 mph drift to the east
continued. A new location was selected for the fly off between Jerry
McGlashan and Ryan Jones in F1B to take advantage of the NW wind direction.

However, by 6 pm, the wind was WSW. We waited until a calm period to start the
10-minute window. Both flyers made the max , but the retrievers had to deal
with a bit of mud. The second fly off was scheduled for 7 pm from a new spot.
At that time, the wind meter was showing a range of 0.5 to 8 mph breezes.
Jerry landed in an open field and Ryan found a tree which required a long
pole for retrieval.
Sunday winds were a repeat of the Saturday fly off weather. Many of those
registered to fly decided to pack up. Those who did stay felt that the
conditions were quite suitable for 2-minute maxes. No models were lost and none
flew beyond the boundaries of the field. A few did find some casual water for
a landing spot, however.
Chuck Markos, CD
Hoosier Cup May 20-21, 2006 Muncie Indiana
Rd 1 Rd 2 Rd 3 Rd 4 Rd 5 Rd 6 Rd 7 FO-1 FO-2 Total
Max 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 1980
Chuck Markos 104 180 180 464

Ryan Jones 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 322 1882
Jerry McGlashan 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 308 1868
Bill Shailor 180 180 180 180 180 165 180 1245
Evan Simon 180 180 157 180 180 163 180 1220
John Seymour 173 180 180 180 180 180 133 1206
Greg Simon 180 180 180 180 180 149 153 1202
Bob Biedron 180 180 180 180 180 162 121 1183
Paul Shailor 180 180 180 124 180 162 166 1172
Paul Crowley 180 180 166 180 146 130 180 1162
Charlie Jones 180 180 143 180 180 180 106 1149


Norman Poti 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 1260
Bucky Servaites 180 180 180 180 180 67 967
Gil Morris 180 180 112 180 652

Rd1 Rd 2 Rd 3 Rd 4 Rd 5 Total
Max 120 120 120 120 120 600
Paul Crowley 120 120 120 120 115 595
John Seymour 38 120 52 120 52 382
Zach Seymour 83 80 163


Chuck Markos 98 63 63 120 65 409
Jean Pailet 59 92 120 61 75 407
Lee Campbell 40 91 82 120 40 373

Gil Morris 120 120 120 120 120 600
Jean Pailet 112 113 120 120 90 555

F1C folder
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F1C folder.

Peter Watson's question contains the answer. The rule specifies that:
"Models with variable geometry or areas must comply with
the specifications when the surfaces are in minimum and
maximum extended mode"
The term variable geometry contains the concept of folder.
There is no maximum area loading requirement for F1C, so no minimum
area. Not the same for F1A/B.
Leonid Fuzeev showed the way during 1996 Eurochamps, i.e. 10 years ago,
without any comment but great applause.
To my eye the folder concept is much more in the free flight way of
than the RC DT for instance.
Thermals to all.


Foreign meets
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Hello Roger: your account of your travel to the second meet was a good example
of what not to do.

The playing field was certainly not level. Is there anyone accountable for st
uff like "six fliers to one pole, ect."

Any meet that I have been involved with made sure everyone got a fair shake.

Your suggestions were good.( Four people to a pole , etc.)

I hope your writings get to the correct people.

Lee Campbell

Usti 2006
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Hi Roger,

I have read your report with great interest. Allways nice to read some
competition report.
Mind you, previous years were a few orders of magnitude worse when it
comes to organising (see my postings and protest of 2003 and 2004). With
the arrival of fresh blood in the organisations, things have improved a

As to time allocation for flyers on the starting pole, you might want to
read (found on the FAI site):

Section 4 ? Aeromodelling
Volume F1
Free Flight
2006 Edition
Effective 1st January 2006



It is not permissible to reduce the timekeeper requirement by increasing
the number of competitors at
each starting position. Sufficient positions should be established to
allow each competitor at least 15
minutes to fly if the round time is evenly distributed between all the
competitors. The official
timekeeper should draw the attention of the FAI Jury to any competitor
taking a significantly longer
time to fly than his fair allocation of round time.

Most contest organisers don't know this rule, but it is well worth
publishing on SCAT!


Conspiring amongst the Stones

> A Tale of two Contests
> ======================


It was good to have you with us at the Stonehenge. We try to run an event
that will attract flyers like your goodself. I hope that you will conspire
with your business arrangements to make the trip again.

Regarding Sezimovo Usti. I went once I'll never go again.

Michael J Woodhouse, Norwich, UK.
Free Flight Supplies has secure internet credit card facilities.
All mail to: -
web site: -

What I really think

After the piece in the last SEN some people asked me if
I would go back to the Sezimovo Usti contest - I have to I still have
some CZ crowns left ! :-). and I did enjoy having dinner with some
of the local's afterwards.

As a number of people have mentioned it is important to provide feed back
to organizers. From Mike Woodhouse's comment above he does not want to go back.
Mike is a person who travels widely to contests.
The organizers of this and other contests should know this and why so
that can encourage more particpation - and more bonus points for
the serious contestant, provided he can get his fligts off !


In the last issue with respect to the question about IMG and Oleg
we said that we intervene in disputes .

This is a typo - we do not intervene


June 17-18, 2006
Bissonette Field, Lost Hills
Flying Schedule: Saturday June 17

7 rounds
1- 7 a.m. to 9 a.m.
2- 8a.m . to 9 a.m.
3-7 9 a.m.- 1 p.m.
rounds on the hour

Note: Rounds may be shortened due to weather.
Fly-off Sunday morning 7:00 a.m. June 18

5 Flights, no rounds! 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.
Fly-off Sunday morning June 18

Entry Fee:
$20 A B C
$10 G H J
Awards: Glassware
For further information contact:
Bob Tymchek
P. O. Box 594
Nipomo, Ca 93444
(805) 929-1605
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Wake Video
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Hadn't seen this before. Check out the wind!

Kerger Downgrades ?

Seen on Memorial Day Weekend at Lost Hills - Kerger off his Fat Cat onto
a little green thing that buzzed ? - No it wasn't TK, not enough
hair. It was Randy Weiler on his annual outing.

Hall effect sensor
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[this is a message that I go about Magic Timers, that I have edited
slightly and included because it has information of general interest.
Note that hall effect devices are used as switches on some timer applications.
In this case the f1A sportsmen are using them has hook switches. They
have the advantage that they have no moving parts and are not subject
to enviromnetal problems such as dirty contacts. On Magic timers they
are interchnageable with reed and mechcanical switches. They do require power,
so an extra wire is needed. There is a source on Magic timers for this.]

I build with Christopher Thom F1A Modell`s.
Ouer first Modell with Black Magic Timer is readdy.Now we build Modell
Nr.2 but we have no Hall Sensors.
Which Type we need? Because we cannot read the Typ do you send us with the

We testeted TLE 4935 l but we havend any function.

Greetings Bernd



I can supply the hall effect sensors with matching magnet.

There are many types of Hall Effect switch with different
properties The one I use

1. is non-latching
2. puts the signal to ground when the magnet is close
3. Runs on 4 - 12 volts
4. is open collector because the timer has a weak pull up.

Roger Morrell