SEN 774- January 22 2003

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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 22 January 2003 issue 774

Table of Contents
=================
To P or not to P
Isaacson Winter Classic - Furutani, Morrell and Weiler
USA / SCAT F1P Junior program
Re: Diels Engineering, Inc.- Info Update
dh 82 tiger moth
Manito Plans: - Stalick
P is for Production - Beschasny
F1A for a Junior - Secor
puppy love - Skykieng
AJ Interceptor - Bogie
Fwd: F1P in SEN - Markos
F1P Timer - TXTimer
Tally Ho, old cF1P - Coleman

Firstly in the last issue part got truncated because of a technical
problem. This issue includes the bits that got left behind .. and more.

To P or not to P
================

The F1P discussion puts us in a major dilemma. In the previous issue
there was an article by Biggles, very critical of the F1P program,
in this issue there are items supporting that position. They are
not the only people with this position. Yet contartily in this issue
there is the offical SCAT position in promoting F1P and providing
significant support for US Juniors to get with the program. So what does
the confused Junior think when he sees all of this ? Does he get
turned off. Hopefully if he dedeides it's too confusing
he will look to the real performance class - F1B instead of his X-Box.

Later on in this issue you will see a request from a hard core
AMA gas family for help to get into F1A ?! Why is that ?

Clearly those at the CIAM must take some responsibilty for the confusion
as the introduction of F1P by passed the normal approval process and thus
did not get sufficent buy-in from the FAI FF community. So unless
there is a similar but 180 degrees opposed 'conspiracy'
to kill F1P at the upcoming FAI meeting then we are stuck with it
for the upcoming Euro and World Junior Champs so maybe we need
to suck it up and support the Juniors ?

Winter Classic - Reminder
==========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

We invite all of you to the first Lost Hills contest of the year!
This is a week before the World Cup, Maxmen International. Many flyers stay
the entire week. This may also be the first F1E (FF slope soaring) event
held in the USA! In addition to the FAI events, there will be Gollywock,
P-30 and Nostalgia Wakefield.

LAST Minute Addition F1P will be flown concurrently with the
Mini events But no Rounds - the last flight must be completed
by the end of the 5th F1G round.

The flyoff will be concurrent with the Mini events.
The SEN Editor is the F1P event Director.

- Norm Furutani, Roger Morrell and Randy Weiler

REMEMBER This is a FUN event - There is NO need to pre-enter
we do not charge more for being late. We prefer you do not
pre-enter because if you do we have to do something about it !!
Just Show up !!

Isaacson Winter Classic
February 8 - 10, 2003 at Lost Hills, California

NEW!
F1E and Nostalgia Wakefield

Saturday, February 8
F1A, F1B & F1C
Round 1, 8:00am!
Round Schedule:
1 8:00am-9:00am
2 9:00am-10:00am
3 10:00am-11:00am
4 11:00am-12:00am
5 12:00am-1:00pm
6 1:00pm-2:00pm
7 2:00pm-3:00pm

Round One Maxes:
F1A 210 seconds
F1B 240 seconds
F1C 240 seconds

Fly-Off Schedule:
Round eight, 5 minute max.
F1A 3:30pm-3:40pm
F1B 3:45pm-3:55pm
F1C 4:00pm-4:10pm
Additional rounds to be announced

Saturday, Special Event:
Gollywocks!
Five, 3 min. max. 8:00am-3:00pm

Sorry!
Due to overwhelming popularity, we are no longer able to offer the Burger
BBQ! We can still join together and potluck Saturday night!

Sunday, February 9
"Mini" Events
Round one, 8:00am!
F1G (Coupe D' Hiver)
F1H (A-1)
F1J (1/2 A power)
Round Schedule:
All events two minute max.
1 8:00am-8:45am
2 8:45am-9:30am
3 9:30am-10:15am
4 10:15am-11:00am
5 11:00am-11:45am

Fly-Off Schedule:
12:00am-12:10pm, 4 minute max
Additional rounds to be announced

Sunday, Special Events:A
7:30- 11:55 - F1P - Seven flights, no rounds. Flyoff noon.

8:00am - 1:00pm
P - 30
AMA rules.
Nostalgia Wakefield
3 - three minute maxes. Must weigh 8 oz. inc. rubber.
Bob White, event director

Monday, February 10
F1E Slope Soaring
12 noon - 5:30pm
What could be the first USA F1E contest will be held on Monday. Five rounds,
45 minutes each, starting at 12 noon. Event director - Peter Brocks.

Entry Fee:
F1A, B and C, $10.00 each event. All others $5.00 each event.
(Must be current member AMA, MAAC or AMA Affiliate. Also Lost Hills Assoc.
member)
Awards:
Jr.-Sr. Open Class combined.
Saturday, First through third, each event.
Sunday, First through third, each event.
Perpetual Gollywock and Nos. Wake awards, courtesy of Bob White
General:
AMA rules except as indicated. This is a time one, fly one contest!
Contest Directors:
Norm Furutani
15423 Haas Ave.
Gardena, CA 90249
(310) 323-1943
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger Morrell
1916 B Gates Ave.
Redondo Beach, CA 90278
(310) 374-2136
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Randy Weiler
25 Winterhaven
Irvine, CA 92714
(949) 733-1521

In memory of
our dear friends,
Bob and LaVera Isaacson

Jr. F1P Development Program
===========================
Jim Parker
01/21/2003

Purpose:
Provide information, support and incentive for young power Free Flight modelers
and their families to become involved with the Jr Free Flight team program. This
program is to supplement the 2004 Jr FAI Free Flight Team Selection Program.

Goal:
The goal is to develop a group of Jr power flyers interesting participating in
the Jr FAI Free Flight program which will result in a full Jr power team in
2004 and beyond.

Background:
The USA Jr FF team has not fielded a full 3 member team for the last several
programs. Individual performances by Austin Gunder, 2000 and 2002 Jr F1J Gold
medallist and John Lorbeckie Jr, 2002 Silver medallist have demonstrated that
with family and other modelers help, young flyers can accomplish great things.
However, these high performance F1J models can be intimidating to the younger ½
A flyer. It should be noted, that Austin’s flew a 1/2/A Maverick at his first
Jr. World Championships in 1998.

The USA is not alone. As a result of low F1J participation in the past several
Jr W.C’s, the FAI has created a new power event, F1P. The idea is to have a
larger and therefore slower and simpler model that would be easier for the
younger modeler to build and fly.

The FAI is transitioning from F1J to the new F1P event. Currently it is believed
that the 2004 Jr W.C. in France will fly F1J and F1P. Also, a 4th power team
member can be fielded if one (perhaps two) of the members flies only F1P. The
best 3 scores will count for team standings. This should be finalized in May
2003.

Approach:
F1P can be approached many different ways. One way is to build an enlarged 1/2A,
(Maverick, AstroStar, Starduster etc.) to meet the F1P rules. These models would
use a moderately priced Cox, MP Jet etc. engine with regular fixed propeller,
mostly balsa wood construction with fixed surfaces, squeeze-off timer and fuse
DT. These models can be very competitive and well within the reach of those Jrs
currently flying or want to fly FF power. We’ll label these Standard F1P. The
information and support portions of this program will provide valuable practical
aid. In addition, an incentive of a free AstroStar 404 kit to those Jrs that
demonstrate previous applicible FF experience will be awarded. Current donations
allow the award of ten AstroStar 404 kits. The intent of this incentive is to
introduce the 8-13 years old FF flyers to Jr FAI FF Team program.

The second approach is for those who have FF power experience and want to go to
a higher performing model but are do not wish to fly the state of the art F1J
model. This higher performance F1P would use the more expensive Cyclon or KS
engine with a folding prop, some composite construction, use auto stab, auto
rudder, flood-off engine and timer DT. We’ll call this High Performance F1P.
These models are just now evolving. In addition to the information and support
portion of this program, this program provides an incentive by awarding a free
Cyclon .061 engine to those who build a F1P model worthy of this engine. Current
donations allow the award of six .061 Cyclon engines. The intent of this
incentive is for the 14-18 years old FF Jr’s with 2004 and 2006 Jr FF Team
aspirations to start flying F1P.

Administration:
The Southern California Aero Club (SCAT) with Jim Parker, club president as the
executive officer, will be the Administrator for program.

Accountability:
This program will be accountable to the Jr Team Selection Committee, Jim
Bradley, chairman which is accountable to the FAI FF Team Section Committee
which is accountable to AMA, FAI council. This program will also coordinate with
National Free Flight Society (NFFS).

Supporters:
The SCAT club in conjunction with the Stockton Gas Model Association, the Sierra
Eagles and Max Men have committed to supporting this program financially.

Individuals committed to helping are :
Doug Galbreath engine
Hank Nystrom timers
Reid Simpson model design
Don Wilkinson model design
Bill Bogart model design
Gil Morris model design
Bob Stalick model design
Terry Thorkildsen model deisign
Bob VanNest model kits
Craig Cusick drafting
Jim O’Rielly drafting

Additional support and assistance is welcomed. Please contact Jim Parker.

Program Entry
- For Jr FAI flyers that will be under the age of 19 throughout the entire
calendar year of 2004 is eligible.
- Submit a Jr FAI FF Team Selection Application, see the NFFS web page,

- Submit a Jr F1P Registration Form of interest. (see attached)

Information
Upon the receipt of a completed Jr F1P Application, a start-up package with
event rules, recommended plan, applicable web sites will be sent to the Jr’s
email address.

Support
If so requested on the Jr F1P Registration Form, every effort will be made to
link the interested Jr flyer with an experienced power FF flyer via Team
Selection Committee, FF Clubs, NFFs and SEN.

Incentive A:
AstroStar 404 Kit Awards: The first ten Jr flyers / families that demonstrate
that they have capability to successful build and fly a Standard F1P FF model
will receive a free AstroStar 404 kit.

AstroStar 404 Kit Award Timing:
The Jr flyer / family will submit AstroStar 404 Kit Request form (see
attached) to the Administrator. The plan is to have the kits ready for
mailing in mid-April 2003. The Kits will be awarded on a first come basis to
those judged to meet the “successful build and fly” criteria. The
Administrator will communicate who has been awarded a kit and the status of
available kits via email and SEN.

Deadline:
The deadline for the award of the AstroStar 404 kit is Aug 1,2004. This
program may continue beyond the 10 kits and the Aug 2004 date if additional
kit production and financial support is secured.

Other Criteria
- Kit to be returned if not completed within 3 months of receiving the
engine.
- Only one kit per modeling family.
- The free Astro Kit can not be combined with the free Cyclon engine
incentive.

Incentive B:
Cyclon Engine: The first 6 flyers / families that demonstrate that they have
build a F1P structure judged to be “flight worthy” and meet the minimum
requirements will receive a new Cyclon .061 (1 cc) engine with tools.

Engine Award Timing:
The Jr flyer and family will submit F1P Airframe Completion form (see
attached) to the Administrator. The engines will be awarded on the last day
April, May, June, July and August 2003 on a first come basis. In the case
that the number of qualified applications exceeds the number of available
engines, then the models that best fulfill the items below will be awarded
the engines. Additional financial support will be sought to fulfill the
addition engine need. The engine will be shipped within a one-week of award.
The Administrator will communicate who has been awarded an engine and the
status of the number of engines available for award via email and SEN.

Builder of the model:
Although the FAI rules do not require the flyer to be the builder of the
model, this incentive program does require a significant portion of the model
to be built my the Jr with aid from their family or mentor. Allowed are the
usual procured non-structure elements such as props, timers and machined
fittings. For the wing, stab and rudders, complete D-boxes are allowed but
the aft ribs must be assembled onto the D-box by the Jr. This requires the
surfaces to be covered by the Jr. In the case of all foam design, the Jr must
start with the foam cores. For the fuselage, complete front ends with
integral engine mounts are allowed. The Jr must install the timer, string the
lines, mount the rudder and stab mount fittings.

Flight Worthy:
The Administrator will make final determination of Flight Worthy. This
decision will be based on an evaluation of the airframe with components,
covered or uncovered directly by the Administrator when possible or
indirectly from inputs from other experienced FAI power flyers.

Minimum Requirements:
- Meet the FAI F1P requirements. 403 sq in. wing minimum, 59.1 in. max.
span, 8.83 oz minimum weight. See the information package for the
official rules.
- Proper provision to mount a .061 Cyclon engine
- Engine cut off mechanism with timer
- Timer actuated DT. Minimum DT of 5 minutes, preferred DT time
capability of 7 minutes
- Possess equipment to start a .061 Cyclon engine, ie starter, battery
etc
- 2004 USA FAI FF Jr Team Selection Program Application, Form A submitted

Desired Capability:
- Weigh less than 10 0z
- Auto rudder
- Auto Stab
- Flood off engine cut off
- Folding prop
- Pressure or bladder fuel tank (i.e. no suction tank)

Deadline:
The deadline for the award of the Cyclon engine award is Aug 1,2004. This
program may continue beyond the 6 engines and the Aug 2004 date if additional
financial support is secured.

Other Criteria
- Engine is to be returned if the F1P model is not flight ready within 3
months of receiving the engine.
- Only one engine per modeling family.
- The free Cyclon engine can not be combined with the free Astro Kit
incentive.
- The engine is to be used only in an F1P model. After being
consistently used in an F1P, the engine can be used in an F1J
model with written (email) permission from the Administrator.

Jr F1P Development Program Registration

Date:_____________________
Jr Flyer Name:____________________________ AMA No. __________________
Address:_________________________________ Date of Birth _______________
_________________________________
_________________________________
Phone Number:_______________________Email __________________________
Parents Name: ___________________________ AMA No.___________________
Please complete and return to : Jim Parker This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
9524 Ruffner, North Hills, CA. 91343

1. What power FF models have you flown (if any)?
__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________
2. Do you have an experienced FF power flyer to help you? YES or NO
(If you answer NO, we will attempt to find you one in your area)
3. How did you learn about the Jr F1P Program?
____________________________
__________________________________________________________________
4. Are you aware of the Jr Team Selection Program? YES or NO
(If no, go to NFFS web site, and print a copy of
the 2004 Jr Team Selection Program)
5. Do you plan to attend the 2003 FF NATs at Muncie Indiana. YES or NO
(Those interested in a 2004 Jr FF Team spot need to compete at the Nats and
2 AmCup contests)
6. Are you more interested in the Standard F1P, High Performance described in
the program? Standard F1P or High Performance F1P
7. Are you (or your parent) a member of NFFS? YES or NO
If no, you should join! Check out the NFFS web site,
. Nominal cost, great publication with
all types of FF.
8. Are you familiar with SCAT Electronic News (SEN)? If not check out
http://www.aeromodel.com/scat, and click on “just e-mail us” to register—
it’s free. Lots of interesting FAI FF stuff.

Comments or Questions:
_____________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________

Signed: _________________________

AstroStar 404 Kit Request Form

Jr Flyer Name:____________________________ Date:_________________
Address:_________________________________Birth date: _____________
_________________________________
_________________________________
Phone Number:_______________________Email _____________________
Parents or Mentor Name: ____________________________
Agreement: Should you be awarded a AstroStar 404 kit, you agree to the
following:
- 2004 USA FAI FF Jr Team Selection Program Application, Form A from
the 2004 Jr FF Team selection Program, must have already been submitted or
included with this request
- Kit will be returned if not completed within 3 months of receipt
- Only one kit per modeling family
- Provide a written report at least one page (single spaced) report on
your experience building and flying the AstroStar 404 by Sept 30,
2003.This report may be published in full or part in MA, NFFS or SEN.

Signed, Jr Flyer: ______________________ Parent: ____________________

Mail completed form to: Jim Parker 9524 Ruffner , North Hills, CA. 91343

Modeling Experience
FF models flown:
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
______________

FF contests flown:
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
______________

FF models built:
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
______________

FF support equipment and building tools:
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
______________

Who do you seek FF help / advice from?
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
______________

Who would vouch for your ability to be successful in building and flying an
AstroStar 404?
________________________________________________________________________________
_______

What engine do you plan to use on the AstroStar 404?
__________________________________________

What timer do you plan to use on the AstroStar 404?
____________________________________________

What material do you plan to cover your AstroStar 404 with?
______________________________________

Other Comments:
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________

F1P Airframe Completion Form

Jr Flyer Name:____________________________ Date:_________________
Address:_________________________________ Birth Date: ____________
_________________________________
_________________________________
Phone Number:_______________________Email _____________________
Parents or Mentor Name: ____________________________
Model Design: _____________________________________
Agreement: Should you be awarded a new .061 Cyclon engine, you agree to the
following:
- Engine is to be returned if the F1P model is not flight ready within 3
months of receiving the engine.
- The engine cannot be used in another model other than a F1P
model. After being consistently used in a F1P, the engine can be
used in a F1J model with written (email) permission from the
Administrator.
- The Builder of the Model criteria as outlined in the Jr F1P Development
program as been meet
- Only one engine per modeling family

Signed, Jr Flyer: ______________________ Parent: ____________________

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
Following portion to be filled out by the F1P Administrator or an Experienced
FAI power flyer. If completed by an Experienced Power flyer, please include

photos if possible and mail to:
Jim Parker 9524 Ruffner , North
Hills, CA. 91343

Minimum Requirements:
? 2004 USA FAI FF Jr Team Selection Program Application, Form A submitted
? Meet the FAI F1P requirements. 403 sq in. wing minimum, 59.1 in. max.
span, 8.83 oz minimum wt.
? Proper provision to mount a .061 Cyclon engine
? Engine cut-off mechanism with timer
? Timer actuated DT. Minimum DT of 5 minutes (i.e. no fuse DT)
? Possess or have use of equipment to start a .061 Cyclon engine, ie
starter, battery etc
? Possess or have use of model tracking transmitters and receivers

Desired Capability:
? Weigh (covered) less than 11 0z
? Auto rudder
? Auto Stab
? DT time capability of 7 to 9 minutes
? Flood-off engine cut off
? Pressure or bladder fuel tank (i.e. no suction tank)

Final Assessment:
The Airframe with all necessary components have been built and assembled in a
manor that provides a reasonable chance for successful flight. YES NO

Other Comments:
_____________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________
Signed: _________________________
date:____________
Phone Number: ___________________
Email: ___________________________

Re: Diels Engineering, Inc.- Info Update
========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Diels Engineering, Inc. manufacturers a line of rubber powered free flight
scale kits and plans. Incorporated in 1986 we are a small cottage
operation. We now have a line of soon to be 37 kits and over 80 plans. We
try to offer things not generally found anywhere else with a few exceptions.
We have received many reviews and recommendations over the years in Flying
Models Magazine and the former Model Builder Magazine. Anyone wishing a
catalog may send me your reular mailing address and I'll send a free
catalog to USA and Canadian customers. Overseas send $2 to cover airmail costs

Our address is:
Diels Engineering, Inc.
P.O. Box 263
Amherst, OH 44001
USA

My business e-mail address for correspondence or catalog requests is:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

David G. Diels
Diels Engineering, Inc.
P.O. Box 263
Amherst, OH 44001
USA
E-mail This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

dh 82 tiger moth
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

request info about aeromodel dh 82 tiger moth,if this type is available =
,the cost of the kit ,the way to order it .
on behalf of corfou airport manager ,greek civil aviation authority.
thanks in advance
kostas skiadopoylos

Manito Plans:
=============
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Manito Plans:
Roger Simpson notes that the Manito would be a good F1P model with an
extended wing. I agree, but I would like to point out that the full sized
plans are also available from NFFS Plans Service at $7.00 per set postpaid.
Support the Freeflight Society and buy your plans from Hank Sperzel, the
Plans Man, 203 Chevro Lane, Bellevue, NE 68005.
Also, no one has yet answered my question about F1P flyoff rounds. Do the max
time increase or the engine runs decrease?
Any answers out there?
Bob Stalick

[According to the latest Sporting Code from the FAI Web Site the flyoff
is a 10 minute window with the max increasing by a minute each time. ]

P is for Production
===================
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Dear Roger,
I do plan to bring with me some of F1P to MaxMen. We do even build a nice motor for them .It mounts to fuselage like Cyclon!
Vasily.

F1A for a Junior
================
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Are there any F1A flyers that would like to donate a F1A ship to Junior
flyer who would like to fly F1A so he can participate in the Junior FAI
Program. He is 14 years old.

puppy love
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Skykieng offers a convoluted response to SEN 772's response to "No folding
for puppies.

#SEN 772 speaks: The more restrictive the rules, then the more ingenious
and
complex will be the design solutions. And there's no doubt that the F1P
rules as written will encourage some very devious solutions !

Hi, Sinful 772. I'm about as devious as they come, but I don't see any real
beneficial gimmicky end-runs available for Puppy. As I understand the rules
(And I could be dead wrong) outside of the DT and engine shut-off there is
essentially only one auto-function to be selected. And the one chosen should
be important aerodynamically. I'll trudge along commenting on the script
below...

#But who said anything about folding the wing ? Why not fold the fin
(because traditional Auto Rudders are now outlawed)

The auto-rudder isn't outlawed. Is it? If selected, that is your one
choice.

#this way you can vary the geometry for power versus glide turn, without
any change of either incidence (relative to the airflow) or camber, and
that way you still have one more function left to utilize ?

I have used a folding fin on an early folder design. The purpose was to
change the area and to change the camber. Horizontal stabilizer or vertical
stabilizer it is still an auto-stab when ya move it. The stab size could be
changed by folding -- since the area rules are concerned with only the wing
(I can see Doug Joyce having fun with this one!) I imagine that if the
vertical fin is a flat plate then there would be no "camber change" ... but
to what purpose?

# Or why not fold
the pylon, which if parallelogram-ed, could provide a suitable change
in both cg position and moment arm, also without any change to either
incidence or camber of the wing (Wild Bill Skyking knows all about
this from his own power models of the '70's !) and you also still get
to use another function as well.

I admit that in the ignorance of my youth I wasted time screwing around
with
moving the wing. But the perceived reasons that motivated me then just
don't apply to a Puppy. I can see no advantage in moving the c.g. or
changing the moment arm from climb to glide by manipulating a fixed wing.
For the record, my swinging wing gimmick facilitated the unfolding process,
and by changing the geometry of the pivot points on the two pylon struts the
incidence could be
changed in lieu of an autostab -- although I did most of the fine trimming
with the stab. For very good reasons I scrubbed all that complexity and
extra weight years ago.

As I mentioned in my previous comments via SEN the most likely approach to
maximize duration of a Puppy schemata is that of turning it into a flapper.
The longer the engine run the greater the advantage gained by using
variable camber. I hinted at a method where two changes could be incorporated in
one function ... which I think is legal, even if not within the spirit of dumb
simplicity.

Keep in mind that the incidence of the wing is changed when a flap is
deflected. Normally an autostab change has to accommodate this. Without an
autostab the flap angle change must be very modest, and increasing the
amount one can use depends on moving the c.g. forward. Too far forward is
counter-productive. This limited flap movement can work, and be really
helpful aerodynamically, but it is still a rather wimpy compromize using a
normal FF c.g. and Tvo.

What I tried on a couple of experimental HLGs was to move the hinge point of
the flap extremely far forward -- close to the 30% location on the mean
chord.
The wing was hinged at the trailing edge in typical HLG dt mode. The
"gimmick" was that the hinged wing was used to change both the incidence
and the camber at the same time and thus to eliminate the need for an
auto-stab to keep things in balance.

This is how it worked: When the wing was seated down for the launch (the
rear of the wing was fixed to the moving wing mount which was hinged in the
rear.) the 30% nose --the flap/slat -- was pushed up by an adjusting screw
to form a near symmetrical section at close to zero degrees to the stab.
When the wing was released to the glide mode (interrupting the full d.t.
function like on an auto-stab) the spring loaded nose was allowed to remain
down a given amount to govern the incidence change.

Visualize it this crude way: imagine a wing cross section loosely pivoted
at the leading and trailing edge to prevent binding. The section is hinged
at 30% chord. Push the hinge point up and down and you change the camber,
yet the incidence stays the same in relationship to the stab. With my tiny
nylon adjustment screws I could select the amount of mean camber % while at
the same time I could get the correct incidence to the stab angle by
modifying the amount of nose deflection/droop. So, I could get near optimum
camber change without needing an autostab. The damned thing actually worked
smoothly. The launch was zippy at zero-zero while the following glide was
really sweet. (For the dt the wing was allowed to finish its interrupted
journey up to the usual 45 degree angle) I didn't pursue this bunny trail
further since I felt "folders" offered an even larger performance advantage.

With the Puppy's low aspect ratio reducing the structural problems I can
see this more sophisticated flap system being attempted by nut cases like
myself... But, really, just using the simple rear flap -- even with
limited deflecton to keep within the trim bounds would give a major boost
to performance -- both going up and coming down. On second thought I might
be suffering from narrow vision. On my new folders I am experimenting with a
very small tail volume and a c.g. of around 38%. The symmetrical stab
assumes a 6 degree decalage in the glide. If the Puppy was set up with a
forward c.g and a relatively small stab with a symmetrical airfoil -- in a
similar manner as the folder mentioned above -- it might work out okay. With
the lower aspect ratio too much camber is non-productive, so that works out
okay (There was a heated discussion a few months ago on SEN about the need
to located c.g. rearward to dampen pitch oscillation in order to maximize
the optimum coefficient of lift. This is an observation seemingly backed up
by much F.F. observation -- including my own -- so the forward c.g. as
advocated by the esteemed Martin Simons is still a very shaky venture and
yet to be established in a high performance free flight)

I confess I'm tempted to try a puppy with a fixed wing this season just to
see how it goes. I think the performance could be surprisingly good. After
fiddling around drawing up some radical airfoil sections to minimize frontal
area I think it could be dubbed "The Flying Razor"!

#Or you could fold the tailplane, to
vary the tail volume for power and glide.

Yeah, but as mentioned above ... to what gainful purpose?

#Or why not just fold
everything, including the F1P event !

Now wait a minute! That is cute but nasty! Shame, Shame, # 772!

I don't think the F1P is the disaster it has been pictured. Might
be fun. And not just for precocious kids. Roger Simpson's idea of folding
it in with F1J for selected contests to get it moving forward makes good
sense. The required low aspect ratio and generous size should make them easy
to fly ... as compared to the usual full-house ultimo FAI designs. Hey! Even
a few Luddites might be tempted! Anyway, that's my take on it for the nonce.

Billious G. AKA (Wild) Bill Gieskieng AKA This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

AJ Interceptor
==============
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There are two hinges. One lateral and two longitudinal

The first motion for folding the wings is to twist the wings nose down on the
lateral hinge. Now the wing fold hinges are in the vertical orientation. At
that point the wings are folded back and held at the wingtips ready for
launch.

Bill Bogart

Fwd: F1P in SEN
================
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Hi Martyn,
I fully support your position on F1P. Your discourse completely captured
the problem and suggested the solution: A one-design approach. I'm sure
that we could get Lee Campbell or W-Hobby to kit whatever selection was made
and market it through FAI Model Supply in the USA. When I first saw the F1P
"proposal" my thoughts were that something along the Baby-Bee 40 concept
would have been much better; a locked-up model with a low-power reed-valve
engine, timer optional. The F1Pers would then have the same distinction as
the F1Cers....all the models would look the same except for decorations!

The plans for such are already on the NFFS website. Running such engines on
FAI fuel might be a problem....I don't know if they will tolerate 0 percent
nitro. My experience with beginners through the Science Olympiad indicates
that they are thrilled with models that have very modest performance.

Keep up the good work!
Chuck Markos

F1P Timer
=========
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For SEN

Texas Timers now has a rugged three function timer in stock that should be
perfect for F1P. It incorporates many useful features suggested by
experienced auto surface flyers. Timer weight is 23.4 grams. Two versions are
available. One for 3-4 minute Dt and the other for 5-6 minute Dt. This
timer was developed primarily for AMA class. However, we are willing to work
with the modeling community toward longer Dt times, with understanding
that shaft speed will be slower. Details and pictures of this timer can be
found at http://www.texastimers.com/timers/preliminary_3f.htm. URL for
full web site is http://wwwtexastimers.com.

Thanks,
Hank

--
Visit TEXAS TIMERS on the web
http://www.TexasTimers.com

Tally Ho, old cF1P
==================
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I fully agree with the "Biggles" opinion printed in the latest SEN # 773
on the F1P FAI Class. It is a totally stupid event which does not offer
a challenge to the Junior's the FF community covets, while diluting an
already over diluted field of FF events and has missed the boat totally
in getting to the juniors around the world except the few already
competing in F1J and FF in general.For those who don't know, there are
damned few young folks at our FF events.
I think that SCAT was right in making Cyclon .061's available. But these
can be used to entice the young to compete in the already available F1J
and A Gas classes. Not some vague approach dreamt up by some old farts
that have no clue.
In this new event there is no program mentioned that would get this
event in front of the young through school programs, the print media or
on to the web. To my knowledge nobody has approached NFFS, the Science
Olympics program or AMA in this country for assistance in getting out
information for a junior power FF event. Actually it becomes an
impossible task unless some precise rules and regulations are in
existence.
We really need to give the junior power event more thought to make it
available and attractive to more of the young folks we are trying to
reach. Why not approach the Lorbiekis, Gunders, Avallones, Parkers,
Coussens and other juniors already involved for their suggestions. What
type of media approach do they think would reach their peers?

Roger C

.............................

Roger Morrell

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