SEN 776- Feb 2 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 2 February 2003 issue 776
Table of Contents
=================
AmCup and F1P - Parker
Astrostar 404 - Ackery
Ladies we need help for the Max Party Time - Van Nest (the one that Matters)
FAI CIAM meeting in march - Segrave
Re: Prop Shaft Hooks
Re: One more question - Carroll
Re: Question about old published model - Dilly
Nat Cup Glider Idea - Jahnke
Hungary Help - Vincent
Nos Glider - Thorkildsen
Re: National Cup Towline Event - Dilly
F1P - Let's Cool It - Dilly
Rubber - Heeb
Share a room? - Markos
Re: 'Open Towline' - Moseley
Southwest Regionals
Lost Hills Look
Thanks
AmCup and F1P
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, for SEN.
At the Jan 30, 2003 SCAT club meeting, a discussion on the AmCup status of the
new F1P was held. This had been requested from within the club and out, some
via previous SEN entries. These suggestions were aimed at supporting this new
event. Another factor taken into consideration was that the recently approved
2004 Jr Team Selection uses two AmCup scores as part of the selection
process. Per our current understanding, there could be a need for one if not
two Jrs to fly F1P at the next Jr W.C. in 2004.
Several options were discussed, two major themes developed. One was to hold F1P
concurrently with the F1J event. This would require a special set of rules to
"ratio" the max times and the different number of rounds. The second option was
to require that F1P to be flown as a separate event.
A close to unanimous vote was for F1P to be treated as a separate event.
Because of the newness of the event, the club decided to provide the
maximum flexibility to the CD's and clubs in running the F1P event.
This is consistent with the way we handled the introduction of the mini
events several years ago.
In summary, a revised set of 2003 AmCup rules will be coming out in the next
two weeks. Essential, they will require that all AmCup Contest run F1P to
the current FAI rules (model criteria, max time and engine run time) and to
report the scores. Like we did in the beginning mini events, 2 contests from
2 sites will be allowed. The CD's and clubs are free to run the event as
they wish. For example, F1P need not be run by rounds. For 2003, certificates
for F1P will be awarded. SCAT will consider getting a F1P Cup for 2004 if the
growth of the event warrants it.
As a reminder, The AmCup $25 sanction fee is due in April 2003. Thanks to those
that have already sent theirs in. PLEASE make the checks out to: Bill Bogart
but mail them to me.
Thermals,
Jim Parker
9524 Ruffner Ave
North Hills, CA. 91343.
Astrostar 404
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Astrostar is a highly successful design, in all its various sizes,
and I am very pleased my 600 size model,
and I am sure that it will be a great choice for an F1P design.
The new 404 version sounds like it could be handy as a nice handy size
model to have, and I could be tempted to add one to my building list.
However the standard Astrostar is a locked up model with none of this
fancy click / clunk moving stuff.
Can someone tell me about the planned F1P version, will it be locked up
, or have the allowed (??) VIT and AR.
Full balsa construction ?, will plans exist ?
thanks
David Ackery
[Dave - I understand that this is being done with the cooperation of
Mr Thorkidsen, who is a completely locked down guy, although
I do believe he is locked up. It said that this is derived from the
'A' sized model rather than the 1/2A as the smaller model wood - note word-
sizes are probably not up to a Cyclon. I know Bob Van Nest is doning
a half kit for Juniors with laser cut ribA. I do not know about general
availability of this as Bob is not in the kit business]
Ladies we need help for the Max Party Time
=========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Ladies
After the fly offs at the Max Man contest and during the prize giving we will
once again have a table of tempting goodies to share with flyers, helpers and
timekeepers. Were asking that you donate your favorite goodies, please make
it simple and finger foods only. Ideas-popcorn, peanuts, cookies, vegies,
dips, salsa, chips, pretzels, brownies, etc.
If you have any questions please contact
Janna VanNest
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
FAI CIAM meeting in march
=========================
Segrave
..... in the last issue we inadvertantly edited out the first two
lines of Mike's email so here it is in it's entirity.
By all accounts, proposals for eventual consideration at the March CIAM
meeting should have been tabled ALREADY at the preliminary meeting last
November. In light of the disastrous meeting in March 2002 when we were
saddled with the ridiculous F1P class, perhaps the American delegate to the
March '03 meeting could have all items to be discussed listed in a
forthcoming SEN so that we ,us freeflighters, could get some idea as to what
might be sprung on us this time from the one man F/F committee? Yes, one
man, that's what I said. Reportedly there were other human being in
attendance but for some unknown reason, were all struck dumb!
Perhaps there is a groundswell of protest at the way the previous meeting
was conducted, albeit within rules formulated by the SAME committee. If not,
perhaps there should be.
I would have thought that the publicising of these proposals would have
ALREADY taken place. Or have I missed something?
Regards
Mike S
Re: Prop Shaft Hooks
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Can anyone explain how the Czech hooks are made (ala Lubomir Koutny) .
How do these hooks compare to "S" (or "Z") hooks in preventing rubber
crawl?
Re: One more question
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Does anyone have the contest schedule for the year. I never saw it released.
Regards,
Ed
_
[Ed it was e-mailed and is on the Website]_
--
Re: Question about old published model
======================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Don and Ed.
I have the copy of Model Airplane News (Nov. 58) with the Champ article i=
n
it. I can either try scanning it and e-mailing it to you or, probab;y
better, let me have a postal address and I'll send you a photocopy.
Thermals
Martin Dilly
Nat Cup Glider Idea
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I have though for some time that the National Cup needed a towline event in
the glider category. However, I would prefer not to add to the glut of
events. Therefore I make the following suggestions (presuming that the
towline itself would be 164 ft. long):
1. Unlimited Towline - no restrictions on size or weight. OR...
2. Count F1A and F1H scores toward both National Cup and Americas Cup scores
Though I think recent comments regarding the difficulties of straight towing
are greatly overstated, imposing this limitation on the event would make it
less attractive.
I think its time to re-cover my Top Kick,
Ross Jahnke
Hungary Help
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, thanks for putting on my plea for help in getting accommodation
in Hungary for the World Champs.
The response was amazing.
Later I will give details of thanks, but for now I would like to
correspond directly in private with those who have e-mailed me.
I started aeromodelling as a schoolboy and flew mainly domestic
contests.It was relatively late in life that I began to fly overseas,
only then realising what the great international network of friends was
like.
It is something special. I hope to meet those who have helped, and many
more, in Hungary
Lincoln
Nos Glider
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
With regards to the nostalgia glider class I suggest
the following:
I personally think the A-1 class and the A-2 class
should be as they were in the nostalgia cutoff date
with regards to areas and weights and that is the
basic rules we should fly. This means that the total
projected area of the A-1 for stab plus wing area
should be around 278 or 279. The model is supposed to
weigh 5.08 oz. I don't recall for sure the A-2 but I
think it was 14.46 oz and I don't know the total
projected area of stab and wing. I think no weight
rules are not a good idea if you want more of an even
playing field.
For mac the biggot the other side of the story is that
some of us didn't mind straight tow and most kids sure
had fun flying it with simple A-1's. It just made it
so you had to pick better air before you started to
tow. Not that I mind circle tow now since it makes a
good indicator if I waiting for a sign of thermals
before I torch off one of my Gas models.
Thermals,
Terry Thorkildsen
Re: National Cup Towline Event
===============================
Sender : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Might one of the UK's glider flyers be permitted to add his ten cents worth
on the proposed rules for the above event ? I'm not quite in the first
flush of athletic youth, and my predeliction for good Cantonese food
provides both a lower c.g. and a higher body weight than some of my younger
competitors; as a result I can only agree totally with Mac the Bigot's
accurate comments on the proposals.
For me the advent of circle towing was a blessing; sure, it let you circle
round prettily and find the occasional good patch of air, but above all it
allowed you to stop charging off upwind and get your breath back while the
model looked after itself for a while, safely latched on the towline.
Carbon structures added to circle tow even helped me to outlive the
pseudonym of The Grim Reaper, arising as a result of my inadequately stiff
wooden wings providing sometimes inadvertent circles at embarrassing
moments in heavy traffic. I'm touching what little wood remains in my
models as a write this, but the steadiness of a carbon model on tow brings
the joy back to glider flying, specially for the people you're not scything
out of the sky as you tow.
Martin Dilly
F1P - Let's Cool It
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
It does seem to me that a touch of paranoia seems to be creeping into the
highly non-productive arguments about F1P, so could we just briefly look at
a couple of the facts. With the greatest respect to Mike Seagrave and John
Barker, I was one of the people at the F/F technical meeting at the 2002
CIAM Plenary, and I do take slight exception to the suggestion that we were
either struck dumb or dictated to, or yet that it is a one-man committee.
From memory and a reference to the minutes, there were actually a number of
other people present and there was considerable discussion. Among them were
Willi Kamp from Austria, Ivan Horejsi from the Czech Republic, France's
Pierre Chaussebourg, Germany's Gerhard Wobbeking, Andras Ree of Hungary,
Luca Gialanella of Italy, myself representing New Zealand, Loureiro de
Sousa from Portugal, Kurt Sager of Switzerland, Ian Kaynes and Mike Colling
of the UK and Dan Tracy of the USA. I may have missed a few others, but
that doesn't look to me like a load of patsies. Neither are they "FAI
officials"; they are the people that a dozen or so NAeCs appointed to
represent free-flight at a CIAM meeting. Some of the anti-F1P lobby clearly
see it as a sad situation that only one of the people at the meeting had
the US vote, but sadly for them that's one of the perils of democracy...
Next, we were faced with a problem that had been apparent at a couple of
recent Junior Championships (and don't forget that most nations have the
advantage of a European Championships as well as the World one to learn
from); that was the fact that F1J attracted just four nations at the 2001
European event and something urgently needed doing to stop the decline and
ultimate scrapping of the event. Whether or not the objectors are aware of
it, F1J is still a provisional class and can thus be amended at less than
four year intervals.
Faced with the need to take urgent action for the 2003 World Junior
Championships, would the objectors have stayed with 'F1J only' and risked
ending up with no power class because of too few entries? Surely we should
be encouraging juniors to take part in the international contest programme,
not bitching at each other about rules aimed at encouraging them to do so .
This year will allow both classes to compete, so let's just calm down,
ensure that there continue to be three events at the Junior Championships
and that lots more youngsters fly in all of them.
See you in Poland.
Martin
Rubber
======
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Ref: Indoor News & Views #102 & #108 &
Bat Sheet Nov 02
Apparently Carl Bakay ran a series of contest rubber energy tests from
1976 to the present. Following are his test results:
TYPE BATCH
ENERGY [70DEG F]
FAI 76-78 3020-3500
Pirelli 78-79 3680-3910
Tan 91 3600-4100
Tan II 94-00 3475-4685
Tan Sport 02 4380-4420
If these data are valid, maybe we won't have a big problem with the loss of
Tan II.
Frank Heeb
Share a room?
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I have a room with an extra bed at the Lost Hills Motel 6 for the MaxMen
weekend, Feb 13 (Thurs) through Feb 16 (Sunday) on the second floor. If any
non-smoker who can put up with my snoring wants to share, please contact me.
Thanks,
Chuck
Re: 'Open Towline'
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
At last we have an opportunity to have a simple glider class that isn't
wrapped around FAI weight and size limits and devoid of complexities. It
offers opportunities for a wide scope in design, size and use of basic
materials, a class that hasn't been widely catered for in the United
States. The Western New York Free Flight Society, to their credit, do
offer an Unlimited Towline event at their Empire State Championships.
I fully agree with the suggestions of Bob Mattes and Lee Campbell - no
restrictions, straight tow, autorudder and d/t functions only; this
could attract a lot of interest from potential glider flyers who shy
away from the present structural and mechanical (even electronic) needs
of the present A/1 and A/2 gliders.
Suggestions to tie such an event to FAI weights and area limits largely
defeat the idea's purpose; one merely ends up with a simpler A/2 class -
'unrestricted' allows so much more latitude in design and creativity
than proscribed boundaries.
As for "'Mac the Bigot's" dismissal of the idea ....
> Only a masochist or a person who had never flown straight towline
would be a proponent of such an event.
I've been flying straight towline for nearly 60 years and in no way am I
a masochist ... and I think it's the best idea yet. Quite simply, if Mac
doesn't like 'em then he doesn't have to build and fly 'em. Many other
people will...
JM
Southwest Regionals
===================
Round
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total
F1A
Mike Mc Keever 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 322 1,882
Jim Parker 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 294 1,854
Hector Diez 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 257 1,817
Dallas Parker (JR 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 220 1,780
Ton Coussens 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 219 1,779
Ben Coussens (JR) 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 214 1,774
Lee Hines 180 180 180 180 180 174 180 1,254
David Oldfield 180 167 180 180 180 180 180 1,247
Martyn Cowley 180 167 180 180 180 180 180 1,247
Norm Smith 180 169 180 121 180 180 180 1,190
Brian Van Nest 180 180 148 180 120 180 180 1,168
Pierre Brun 180 180 180 180 180 106 142 1,148
Don Zink 180 180 180 180 148 93 180 1,141
Dean Clarke 43 180 175 148 180 180 180 1,086
Chuck Markos 180 180 157 180 180 180DNF 1,057
Peter Brocks 180 171 108 109 180 180 37 965
Job Davis 121 180 180 126 180DNF DNF 787
Dick Ivers 161 137 124DNF DNF DNF DNF 422
F1B
Rich Rohrke 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 313 1,873
Bill Booth 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 300 1,860
George Schroedter 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 281 1,841
John Clapp 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 265 1,825
Paul Crowley 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 276 1,536
Allen Ulm 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 215 1,475
John Pratt 180 180 180 180 180 180 175 1,255
Ralph Cooney 180 180 174 180 180 180 180 1,254
Bob Tymcheck 180 180 180 180 180 162 180 1,242
Walt Ghio 180 180 180 180 180 176 159 1,235
Michael Woodhouse 180 180 180 180 180 154 180 1,234
Martyn Schroedter 180 180 180 152 180 180 180 1,232
Philip Scheiman ( 143 148 180 180 180 180 180 1,191
Bpb Piserchio 180 180 180 180 75 180 163 1,138
Dick Wood 180 180 180 180 180 104DNF 1,004
Alan Peterson 180 69 112 150 56 180 171 918
Larry Norvall 180 180 180 180 132DNF DNF 852
Jin O'Reilly 180 99 180 118DNF DNF DNF 577
Charles Dorsett DNF DNF DNF DNF DNF DNF DNF 0
F1C
Randy Archer 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 424 2,404
Don Chesson 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 370 2,350
Faust Parker 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 418 1,978
Guy Menanno 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 391 1,951
Doug Joyce 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 384 1,944
Terry Kerger 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 368 1,928
Daryl Perkins 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 290 1,850
John Warren 180 180 180 180 164 180 180 1,244
F1G
Alan Peterson 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 217 1,237
Ralph Cooney 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 212 1,232
Jim O'Reilly 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 210 1,230
Peter Brocks 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 204 1,224
Paul Crowley 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 162 1,182
Charles Dorsett 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 96 1,116
Marv Bashaw 120 120 120 120 120 180 202 982
Richerd Ivers 120 120 120 120 120 180 164 944
Phil Klintworth 120 120 120 120 120 122 722
Martyn Schroedter 120 120 118 120 120 598
Richard Wood 120 120 117 120 120 597
John Clapp 120 120 120 120 113 593
George Schroedter 120 120 112 120 120 592
Bob White 120 120 120 111 120 591
Dick Strang 110 120 120 120 120 590
Bill Booth 120 120 107120 120 587
Bob Tymcheck 120 120 120 120 105 585
John Pratt 120 120 120 120 99 579
Mike Fruciano 120 89 96 120 120 545
Willard Schmitz 47 91 56 120 53 367
Don Bartick 120 120 65DNF DNF 305
Larry Norvall 120108 DNF DNF DNF 228
Chuck Markoz 82DNF DNF DNF DNF 82
F1H
Dallas Parker 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 1,320
Brian Van Nest 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 258 1,278
Ryan Archer 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 143 1,163
Mike Mc Keever 120 120 120 120 120 180 157 937
Martyn Cowley 120 120 120 120 120 180 121 901
Jon Davis 120 120 120 120 120 49 649
Norm Smith 120 99 120 116 87 542
Dob Zink 120 120 120 120 54 534
Lee Hines 120 120 108 120 64 532
Chuck Markos 104 120DNF DNF DNF 224
0
F1J
Faust Parker 120 120 120 120 120 240 840
John Warren 120 120 120 120 120 224 824
Jackie Sheffer 120 120 120 120 120 199 799
Guy Menanno 120 120 120 120 120 178 778
Tony Robertson 120 120 120 120 107 587
Lost Hills Look
===============
Today at Lost Hills was Blue Bird day - a few sportsmen tuning up
for the up coming events - clear sky, no wind , gentle lift
and green fuzz on the ground....
Thanks
=======
Thanks to Roger Coleman for his donation in support of SEN
.................
Roger Morrell
