SEN 841- 22 Dec 2003
- Category: Archive 2003
- Hits: 444
News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic news 22 December 2003 issue 841
Table of Contents
G/Day - Bryant
The Detroit Balsa Bugs 54th Annual Inter-City Meet May 15-16 - Shailor
Florida ? - Blackam
Butyrate dope - Schroedter
1953 Zaic Yearbook
MaxMen 2004 - Slobat
Hooking up with Ben - Norton
FW: Wanted F1H - Farmer
A day in the life - Segrave
Japanese tissue; which way the greatest grain gain? - Skykieng
AmCup News - Parker
Hi, I'm Joni, I'm interested in aeromodelling,
particularly in gliders and simple batt operated
I've been looking for info about "how to build" info,
but so far, i haven't found anything I can use yet.
Could you please pass me informations about web
sites/books that might have a simple step by step
instruction on how to build one.
I choose to build because such hobby is very expensive
in Indonesia, besides, I think there should be more
fun in building than buying one. Anyone can buy.
> Table of Contents
> ====----- Original Message -----
From: "SCAT user"
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:27 AM
> G/Day Rodger',
> Thanks for your effort with "scat" throught the year.
Merry Xmas to you and all who contribute .
Scat keeps all us loners up to date with whats going on in the world.
The Detroit Balsa Bugs 54th Annual Inter-City Meet May 15-16
The Detroit Balsa Bugs will host the 54th Annual Inter-City Meet May 15-16,
2004 at the AMA field in Muncie, Indiana. The 14th will be an FAI qualifier.
This is a little earlier in the year than usual, but should be late enough
for good weather. Details and a contest flyer are in the works, but if you
Thanks, and Happy Holidays!
hi Roger, i will be visiting Florida from this Dec 30th until Jan 20th,
staying just outside of Orlando. does anyone know what aviation museums
are worth seeing in this area, are there any airshows on & any free
flight events during that time.
any advice would be appreciated prior to my departure , if you have
another report out by then.
my personal best wishes for a happy Christmas, go to yourself & family &
everyone else in the free flight world.
Many years ago contest awards were usually merchandise. I had
considerable success back in the 60s flying =BDA & A. Winners often
could choose an engine, but many other items could be selected. Almost
always there were some cans of Sig Supercoat butyrate dope. It did not
take me long to acquire quite a large stock of this dope. In the late
60s I started building rubber powered models. Since I had lots of
butyrate, that was what I used. I still use butyrate today despite the
fact that nitrate dope is universally recommended. I have been told that
over time butyrate shrinks too much and causes warps. My experience of
more than 30 years never confirmed this. (One can also use low-shrink
I built 2 new wakes to take to the WC in Australia back in '83. On those
I used nitrate dope. I can definitely tell you that is MUCH harder to
apply Japanese tissue with nitrate dope. As for service, I could saw no
advantage to the nitrate.
About 20 years ago there was an article in the NFFS Digest that compared
Japanese tissue covered with nitrate to tissue covered with butyrate. I
am not certain, but I think this was a reprint of an article that had
appeared in one of the British FF publications. At any rate, this
article reported some surprising data. It stated that tissue covered
with butyrate was both lighter and more water resistant than tissue
covered with nitrate! When one considers this along with the ease of
covering with butyrate, I am puzzled as to why the current wisdom is to
use only nitrate. I trust that the readers of SEN will express their
On one other related subject: Someone here recently mentioned that one
should pay attention to the grain of Japanese tissue. I don't know what
tissue he was referring to, but having imported many thousands of sheets
of Esaki tissue from Japan during the 18 years I ran Champion Model
Products, I can say with certainty that Esaki tissue is a multi-layer
tissue. As a result, it has NO grain. It is true that Esaki tissue made
40 or more years ago did have a grain. Certainly not the Esaki that is
sold today. Incidentally, Esaki tissue is sold in the U.S. under a
variety of brand names. The Japanese tissue Sig sells is Esaki.
1953 Zaic Yearbook
Could you please put the following into the next issue of SCAT
1953 Zaic Yearbook
Does anybody have a copy of the 1953 Zaic Yearbook that they are willing
to sell? If so, please contact Paul Rossiter at
Paul Rossiter Pty Ltd
ABN 25 105 577 713
ACN 105 577 713
PO Box 1247
Phone +61 8 9316 0250
Fax +61 8 9316 0251
Hi Roger. Could you please make the following announcement on SEN:
The 2004 Maxmen International will be held Feb 13 - 16. The Minis will
be 13, F1ABC on 14&15, the reserve day on 16. If you need an
invitation, for Visa purposes, you must have your NAC contact Steve
understand it is relatively painless. I will be putting out an online
entry form, through SEN, within the next week. George Batiuk
Printed on System : aeromodel dot com for scat
on Date : Tue Dec 23 08:34:34 2003
After reading your article on Palm pilots for use of programming your
electronic timers, I have been looking at the available Palm IIIxe on the
internet. There are many different configurations available. Could you help
by giving me the minimum features on the palm such as memory, flash cards,
programs,etc. and what accessories are needed such as the cradle, stiles
for programming a Red or Black magic timer - any PP that will
support a serial connection will work.
the Palm IIIxe is good because it has a big screen, monchrome
and suppoerts serial access - and can be found for less than
Hooking up with Ben
Subject : Re: SCAT Electronic News 16 December 2003 issue 839
This Ben Noon guy is looking for towhooks, and I have them for sale.
I tried to reach him on his first request, but was unable to do so -- it
came coming back error. This time , I tried his "correct" address -- same
result. Any suggestions?
FW: Wanted F1H
I am forwarding again my email from last week. This is coming from my work
email, and occasionally it blocks incoming emails for some unknown reason.
If you get this I would appreciate very much a quick phone call - to my work
number is best - just so I can know the email is working.
(480) 894-2517 (home)
(480) 705-2668 (work)
I'm an old high school friend of Jim Parker's and former A2 Nordic flying
buddy, circa 1972-75 El Paso Texas. I live in Tempe AZ now, since 1985.
Jim suggested that I shoot you an email about placing a "Want to buy F1H ad"
on the SCAT website.
What I'm looking for is an F1H for my son, or sons, to learn with. Sam is
13 and Billy is 14 ( Joe is 8 and may also become interested). Jim was kind
enough to lend us two F1H models to fly last weekend in Eloy - one for me,
and one that Sam flew and did well with. The model Sam used had circle tow,
but we set him up for straight tow at the contest.
I would be interested in just about any A1/F1H available - if it's low tech
1960's that's fine, we'll move up from there -- or a more modern design with
circle tow, carbon, etc. is also fine. I guess the only restriction is that
it be mechanical, i.e. no electronic servo type stuff for this first model.
I would appreciate very much any assistance you could provide on setting up
the want-ad, and any other advice for locating a pre-owned model.
(480) 894-2517 (home)
(480) 705-2668 (work)
A day in the life
I have been trying to convert a version of Jim Richmond' 'Catwalker' to an
outdoor contest ship while investigating the merits of offset wings (both
left and right), left and right climb patterns as well as the use of props
very much larger than the usual max of 44% of the wingspan. My first try
used a solid box on the wing with a VERY thin airfoil, 3% on a 4% mean
camber line with a moment arm lengthened by 2" which allowed me to use a
smaller stab the the original.
Most of the first flying sessions treminatred very quickly as the two masts
mounting the wing would break either at the fuse joint or where they were
attached to the root section. Sometimes just the shock of the prop folding
was enough to send the wing on a flight of its own.... Once I had
overcome this wiith cotton binding and much cyano,I was able to begin the
actual trimming, Glides did not seem to be of a higher order even with the
CG well back so I glued some 3/32 strips on the top and recovered. That
appeared to be better but no great shakes.
The stab section was thin, 5 on 1% but even so seemed to be pushing the nose
down. So at the next session, I REVERSED it i.e., turned it upside down!! so
that now the lift was acting in a downwards direction at the rear and so
raising the nose. Yes I know, you are only supposed to use stabs with
reverse camber when the CG is at 25% but what do they know? The ship now
glided very well, even floating!!! with its low(3.5) aspect ratio. Who
woulda thunk it??? Power was 12 strands of 3x1 turning a 16x20 prop which
pulled the ship up quite steeply but at the end of the burst, had a
tendency to turn to the left. I found that I had set the ship up with no
offset thrusts so the addition of 1/32 side and down produced a nice
pattern. However. there is a pause the the end of the burst where the ship
seems to hesitate then continues its climb. I think that it is actaully
reducing its angle of attack during the pause but am not really sure.
So yesterday morning, having decided to make a smaller stab to move the CG
further forward, I covered this stab with mylar and stepped out into the
garden to test it out. My, a great float seen over 4 flights. By this time,
however the wind had got up so no powered flights in the neighborhood park
were possible. So I went downtown to the local library where I am able to
use the computers to type up articles for 'Vol Libre' and other
publications. I was very concerned to find that the title painstakingly
constructed had disappeared off the top of the screen. Staff were not able
to ascertain why this had happened so referred me to the expert, Vanessa.
Back home in the late afternoon to check the weather but still a good
breeze. So began assembling the centresection of my latest tailless Cdh,
larger than the others to try out a different wing loading. As the section
is close to being flatbottomed, instead of making the usual cambered
building board, I just assembled some sheets of 1/8" and outlined this with
1/8 sq. spruce. The jig, such as it was was simply a strip of 1/16 x 1/8 at
30% with similar strips glued and tapered to the front. Then drew the plan
and assembled the bottom LE sheet( integral with the LE), TE and ribs.
Rounding out the day with a session of calculations on P-30s - and so to
Japanese tissue; which way the greatest grain gain?
Whoa, Tom! Don't touch that Jap tissue yet!
Some forgotten modeler set me straight about this 60 years ago.
Applying tissue with the grain chordwise is an old urbanized rural legend
kept alive by Bob Meuser during his redactor years. The grain in tissue
acts much like multi spars and best follows the span not the ribs.
Applying tissue parallel to ribs will result in much GREATER SAG between
the ribs...(this might be okay if the airfoil is too fat and you want to
the spirit of old-timer's airfoil rules a bit)
I believe Bob's original reasoning was that the shrinkage is greatest across
the grain and will result in tighter coverage, etc. . That may be true in
some unfathomable manner, but end result are not desirable...plus it
encourages those damn nagging tears running parallel to the ribs.
There has been disagreement early on about which side should be up. The
shiny side needs less dope. If weight is not a big thing and more coats of
dope desired then shiny side down will contain the dope and prevent
dribbling out the bottom.
Shiney Side Up
The shiney side is the up side. The grain will run across the narrow width.
Two coats of dope to the framwork to be covered is the most common method.
Then shrink with water or alcohol. There are paper glues such as "UHU" that
work quite well to attach tissue and can be obtained at stationary stores
like Staples or Office Depot.
We are down to the last Am Cup contest of the year-- the King Orange.
Two weekends ago the Eloy AZ contest typified the AmCup mission: "This
coast-to-coast competition encourages fliers to attend multiple contests
each year in the United States and Canada".
Austin Gunder came between his Friday and Monday high school basketball
games to successfully defend his 1st place from the hard charging Ed
Carroll. Andrew and Peter Barron escaped the eastern snow blizzards.
Peter had a shot at moving up several places and potentially 1st but the
tricky Eloy air stole a few seconds from him on one flight. I rediscovered
that an electronic bunter does not go so well when switched off. Andrew
helped me by staving off the hard charging Mike McKever in F1A. However,
Mike's time in the sun came in winning the F1H flyoff over Brain Van Nest
by 11 sec, which was enough to take 1st place.
I'm not sure how F1G faired, the last I heard 3 were maxed out and due to
the afternoon dust storm (which abated later and F1J and H flew) decided to
fly off on Jan 15, 2004. This is the last day to decide a tie per the 2003
rules. It is also the Thursday of the S.W. Regionals, the first 2004 AmCup
events. Dick woods is one of the maxed out and a win could move him to 1st
place. Most 1st places are "mathematically" still open. The only lock seems
to be Randy Archer's F1C first.
Last weekend at the SCAT Holiday party meeting we finalized the Am Cup
2004 contests. The 2004 AmCup contests will be the same as 2003 EXCEPT Harts
Lake contest was deleted and the Sierra Champs was added. We decided not to
publish a separate AmCup schedule for 2004 but to utilize the NFFs contest
calendar. I'll coordinate with Alan Petersen (NFFs web master) the sanctioned
AmCup contests but it is the responsibility of the CD's to get their contest
on the NFFs calendar.
For the early planners, the first 3 months are;
Jan 17-19, 2004 S.W. Regionals, Eloy AZ-Ed Lidberg
Feb 14-15, 2004 Max Men, Lost Hills, CA-George Batiuk
Mar 6-7, SCAT Annual, Lost Hills, CA-Roger Coleman
Apr 3-4, Sierra Championships, Sacramento, Waegel Field, CA-
Roger Simpson (note, the AmCup "diamond" is to be added to the CUFFMAC calendar)
Apr 24-25, Spring Cup, Seguin,TX-Faust Parker
The 2004 rules were ratified. As published in SEN earlier this year, rule
1d) "residency" has been clarified. Also, we redefined rule 10) 'Entry'
means - made at least one official flight. For 2004, 'Entry" means- made
at least 4 flight in F1A,B and C and 3 flights in F1G,H,J and P.
F1P wording was added to include it as a provisional event. For the contest
directors, the old AmCup result forms have been deleted and now full entrant
listings and round scores are requested. The 2004 rules will be sent
to Alan Petersen and hopefully will be on the NFFs web site at the turn
of the year. Contact me via email if you wish a copy before then. Likewise
if you want a copy of the current 2003 AmCup results (currently I have
only partial Eloy AZ Champs results).
SCAT is currently switching over our banking account so I request that CDs
and clubs wait to send in their 2004 AmCup sanction fees until they hear
from me via SEN. If you have already sent a check, we'll figure out away to
Thermals, Jim Parker
Happy Holidays from Boddington and ...