SEN 670 - 29 Jan 2002

SCAT Electronic News 29 January 2002 issue 670

Table of Contents
Advertising in SEN
Cyclon F1C Engine - Whitesides
Flying North - A New Book - Dilly
Rangefinder report - Brokenspar
Sporting Equipment
Twin props - Seagrave
Gliding tests - O'Dwyer
F1B costs - Schroedter
Response to Mr. Wegener. - Shailor
2001 AmCup, 2002 MaxMen Banquet - Parker & Coussens

Advertising in SEN
Some people have asked if advertizments are OK in SEN>
The purpose of SEN is to keep the FAI up to date. To this end
advertizements or product announcements related to FAI Free Flight
are welcome and there is no charge. They should
be in plain text like everything else in SEN. If I think that
you are abusing the privelege it will not be published.

Cyclon F1C Engine
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Fellow Modelers:

Seeing the turmoil in the F1C world (dare I mention gears) and wondering what
his response would be to gears and engine development I asked Alexander
Kalmykov if he were planning to build a Cyclon F1C engine. The following is
his response prior to the WC:

"We make new engine for FAI F1C free fly model without Ni (nitromethane)
Cyclon-15Kaz. First limited serie will be ready for sale in one month about.
This engine will be use one blade propeller,because have not spring brake.The
engine have "fuel brake system" only. The fuel go from pressure rubber tank
to two liner ports directly. The brake time 0.2...0.4 sec ! The engine have
special nipple in rear side .
The mounting systems - as on the engine 06Top4.
I am think what the non geared engine with non folding one blade propeller -
is greatly now.
5 second for work engine - is seriously for brake time, but geared engine
will be have problem, I think(krash geares, folding propellers, crank shaft,
conrod. We make new engine for 2002 seazon !
Please check specification of the engine.

-RPM 32000
-power 1,25...1,4 BHP
-bore 14mm
-stroke 16mm
-front intake
-rear exhaust
-2 fuel ports
-crank valve 15mm diameter
-crankpin 6x5 mm chromed
-piston pin 5 mm diameter
-ball bearings 15x24 and 8x19
-piston/liner AAC
-liner timing 120x150
-valve timing 25x65
-NEW ! brake system - pressure fuel to liner fuel ports directly
from pressure rubber tank only
brake time 0.2-0.4 sec
-recommended propeller type - carbon 1 blade prop 190x75 non folding
-spinner 30 mm
-weight 179 g about
-venturi 9 mm
-2 mount types - rear and normal."

Alexander has agreed to allow purchases of a quantity of engines from a
group. In quantities of 10 the engine list price is $249.00 each. As some
will remember, I managed similar purchases at the introduction of the .061
TOP-2, TOP-3 and TOP-4. In addition to the list price, we will split
international airmail cost of $45 from Novosibirsk to my home on the basis of
10 engines per package or $4.50 per engine. I will arbitrarily decide on how
much parts should bear. U.S. Priority Mail will be at cost, which I will
estimate in advance. The final cost is the cost of wire transfer from my
bank to Novosibirsk. This has been about $25.00 per transaction and will be
apportioned to all who participate.

Alexander will also allow us to purchase the current F1J engine, the TOP-4 at
the 10 unit price of $96.40. I wish to limit the number of TOP-4 orders to
the number necessary to make up a good sized order in support of introducing
the .15Kaz.

Engines are not my business, and there are no performance guarantees implied.
I simply act as the manager of the group and do not plan to stock parts or
offer any type of service.

Those who are interested should contact me for a complete price list for the
engines and parts, including the single blade propeller or two different
folding props that are offered for the .15 Kaz. Should there not be
sufficient interest demonstrated by mid-February, I will likely abandon the

Best Regards,

Robert Whitesides

Flying North - A New Book
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Flying North, just published by the British Model Flying Association,
traces the model flying career of Jack North, one of only two people to
represent Great Britain on all three outdoor free flight teams, -
Wakefield, Power and Glider. It covers his flying from 1938 onwards and
includes plans of no less than 24 of his previously-unpublished models,
likely to be of considerable interest to the vintage and nostalgia brigade.
It was compiled and edited by two of Jack's Croydon clubmates, David Beales
and Martin Dilly, who had access to Jack's extensive notebooks,
photographs, drawings and his original models.

Flying North is a 163 page book and includes 130 photographs, reminiscences
by colleagues, re-prints of all Jack's published plans and articles,
including his later extensive work on thermal detection, and an outline of
the professional career that also made him such a respected name in
high-speed aerodynamics.

Prices are as follows: UK - Pstg 17; Airmail Europe - Pstg 18;
Airmail Elsewhere - Pstg 21

Copies are available from: Martin Dilly, 20, Links Road, West Wickham, Kent
BR4 OQW. Cheques should be payable to "BMFA F/F Team Support Fund", in
pounds sterling only, and drawn on a bank with a branch in Great Britain.

You can also phone or Fax your order to him using your credit card on: +44
(0)208-777-5533, or by e-mail to: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

Proceeds go towards the costs of the UK national teams at World and
European Free-Flight Championships.

Many thanks.



Rangefinder report
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My first occasion to try the Leica LRF 800 Rangemaster,
at the South West Regionals, was dissapionting.

The optics and viewing capabilities are excellent.
The proceedure is to focus on your subject,
and then push the button provided, once, and release.

This brings up a small outlined square, in red. The square display =
lasts 4 seconds.
The next step is to find the subject within the square,
and push the same button again, momentarily.

If your subject is captured within the square, a numeric readout appears =

( in optional meters or yards, pre set )

The trick is to get the object in the square. It takes a hand more =
steady than mine.
For me, the square was bouncing up, down and sideways, across and near =
the target.
I was only occasionally able to get a readout. And then, not repeatable.

Hermann Andresen tried it, with slightly better results.....
he was able to determine that a sign, about 2 ft square, was 69 yaers away.
Well, maybe 72 yards...

If you are considering a purchase, make sure you can operate it successfully.
on our targets. An F1C at 700 feet, just completing it's bunt.
( what's that in yards, Hermann ? )

Test it yourself carefully..

It's about 400 bucks ( that'll buy a lot of cirars )

your servant

Sporting Equipment
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almost any upper level "sporting equipment" necessary for competitors today seems
very expensive,but a closer look reveals a product made with utmost care,by
meticulous craftsmen who love their work. i wish i could afford either a modern
F1C or a hi tech bike, alas i'm left for now with a 15 yr old TREK
and a gaggle of
stardusters,nos gasses,15 yr old F1Cs ad nauseum...........thank goodness there
are some people who can afford modern equipment, otherwise there would be no
used stuff for us po-folk....complaining about gears and such is kinda silly in
a premier event like F1C. far as IRONMAN goes...try flying 5 or 6 events a day in n.
central texas, in july, on foot, 106* F, 90% H......etc. etc........
thermals, jesse

Twin props
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I have been fllying a twin CdH for a number of years and the latest version
climbs very steeply. I have been very imppressed by this after the initial
flights under power being horizontal.Some thought about the output of the
twin setup led me to the following: half turns (300) runs off in aboout 20
seconds so the props are turning about 50% faster than the usual which is
about 10 turns per second. Now the blades are 32 mm wide at the 70% raduis
of the 12 x 15" props. Since moost (I think!) props in this class running on
the equivalent motor (12 x 3 x 1) are around 18 x 22 with blade widths of
say 36 to 40 mm BUT turn much slower, there appears to be an advantage here.
Add in the fact that since they are turning faster and thus will have less
"slip" to the higher RN (32 mm x l.5 vs 36 or 40 x 1) achieved and the
additional performance is explained. Is this the way to go for F1B????? 30
grams = 2 x 15 gms using say 16" props each on 12 strands which should take
600 turns each giving a run on this initial attempt of say 40 secs.With
development like took place with the 40-35 g, this would eventually reach
the other side of 50 secs. Any takers? Mayber someone could work out what
the actual extra performance really is.

Gliding tests
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Peter et al:

I have been conducting glide tests for a number of years. Making comparisons
between free wheeling props, turbulator and gurney flap effects and even
evaluating complete configurations. I have found no wind tunnels in the
world with a low enough turbulence factor that can provide information in
the very low Reynolds number range that rubber powered models glide.Some of
the results of these tests were shown in the article I presented in the 2001
NFFS Sympo.

Yes a launching device would allow fewer test glides but might limit the
configurations under test. I have found that averaging 30 glides of a
configuration will give statistically valid results. Yes that is a lot of
walking .
Thanks Tom for the offer of the old blimp hanger. I hope someone takes you
up on the offer. A high ceiling is not neccessary for hand launched glide
testing but it allows you to launch from a higher point thus increasing the
accuracy of the time and distance measurements.

John O'Dwyer

F1B costs
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We've had lots of comments in SEN about F1C costs. While the costs for =
purchased F1B models or parts is slightly less than the costs for either =
F1A or F1C models, the costs for F1B comes to about the same when one =
considers the costs for all the peripheral equipment. For my flying I =
have a Flyte-Tech stooge, a Russian winder, FAI thermister (minor cost) =
a tall streamer pole, expensive tripod and binoculars (F1B models are =
much smaller!) a tracking system, an Acculab V-400i scale to weigh =
rubber, and of course 2 or 3 ten lb boxes of rubber ( we are always =
seeking a better batch.) I don't even want to think about the cost now =
for a year's supply of Tan II. There are lots of other small items. =
Finally, dial in all the time needed to prepare and test 200 or more =
motors for a year's competitions and testing, and I would not be =
surprised to find that F1B is the most expensive of all!=20
George Schroedter

Response to Mr. Wegener.
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The reason most of us do what we do is the comeraderie, the challenge and a
sense of a job well done. Cost is merely coincidental. The better we feel
about what we do or the results we obtain, the less relevant cost becomes.

It's too bad you didn't get from flying F1B what others do. Maybe then you'd

Maybe then you wouldn't take it upon youself, what with your extensive
history and success with F1B and all, to suggest the thrill we get from
flying can't compare with what you now do.

I'm glad you've found comfort and solace in what you now like to do. Both
our sports have benefited from your new endeavor.

Bill Shailor

2001 AmCup, 2002 MaxMen Banquet
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Roger, please post in SEN.

2001 AmCup, 2002 MaxMen Banquet

The 2001 AmCup, 2002 MaxMen Banquet will again be held at the Wasco Valley
Rose Country Club on Saturday, Feb. 16, 2002.

Sign up for the Banquet is via the MaxMen hard copy entry form as earlier
distributed by George Batiuk or e-form posted here on SEN,
issue 662, Jan.7, 2002. $20 a plate, $10 for 17 years and under.

The menu this year is Prime Rib, twice baked potato, salad and bread sticks.
Please contact Jim Parker