SEN 696 - 28 Apr 2002
- Category: Archive 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 28 April 2002 issue 696
table of contents
Old picture? - Kargol
More participation in Free Flight - Gewain
CIAM - Kaynes
Texas Cloud Climbers Annual FF Champs - Fedor
f1p plans - Wilkenson
FAI at FFAMS - May 18-19 - Markos
The Junior F1A program in France and SEN#694 - Segrave
Safety and Fixed Props - Andresen
Brokenspar rambles to the lake shore
Re: Youth retention - Bennett
SanValeers 2002 - Thorkildsen
I'm looking for a strong, light-weight graphite hollow shaft to use as a =
fuselage for a P-30 rubber model. Any ideas where I can find one? =
Does anyone know where I could find an old Model Airplane News issue that
had my picture in? I think it was around 1968 the nats issue. I was shown
launching a 1/2A on one of its final flyoff filghts. I was lucky to win
More participation in Free Flight
Printed on System : aeromodel dot com for scat
I just got back from a convention of the National Retail Hobby Stores
Association and the group was selling the RC park flyers very hard.
Apparently these are the fastest growing category in hobby shop sales. If
you look at a few of these models they are just a ready to fly simple Free
Flight model with cheap radio control installed. These models cost from
$100 to $300 for a starter model and apparently they are selling fast
because one dealer said he sold more than $100,000 worth of these models
Any hobby dealer that can sell these park flyers should also have a good
market for an entry level Free Flight model. This would get a lot of people
introduced to Free Flight. Then a few of the many people that are
introduced to Free Flight would want to learn more and build more advanced
The DIY cable TV channel has a program on about Ready To Fly RC models and
they were at the convention filming for a future program about the latest
park flyers. This type of program gets the Toys-R-Us crowd into the hobby
shops and keeps the popularity of these models growing. A Free Flight
organization like SCAT or NFFS should contact the DIY cannel and see if they
would do a show on building and flying a beginners Free Flight model.
If we really want to keep Free Flight from disappearing we need to have the
basic concepts of Free Flight introduced to more people. We attend some of
the biggest hobby trade shows each year and there is very little to no Free
Flight representation. If you want to interest people in Free Flight the
least you must do is put some models in display at these hobby shows. You
could also get a booth and have more models there run a video of Free Flight
models flying, and have pictures of models to show the variety of Free
I must admit that those Park flyers and indoor models look very
attractive . .. Particularly for someone in the LA wheer even to
go to an R/C field is a long way.
I think that some of Al Brush's ideas are oin the right track but
just not sold widely enough]
At the CIAM meeting Gordon Schimmel, chairman of the AMA Educational
Committee, gave an interesting talk about the work of his committee and
allied questions of aeromodelling in schools. This was given as a talk to
delegates at the end of the first day of the Plenary meeting. It was very
informative, it had not been on the advance agenda and it did not lead to
any rule changes! As an interesting item I should have reported it to give
credit to Gordon, but I would not see it my place to tell SCAT's readers in
the USA about an AMA comittee!
[Ian, Thanks for the comment, the general reaction here was who is
this guy ? and why was here there. Maybe a take for the AMA
is to better publize his activities. As other people also
a positive reaction as you seem to have.]
Eric Ryan was flying a very attractive F1B - It never ceases to amaze
me on the ingenuity of modellers. The wing on Eric's model was covered a
putrple mylar. To match this on the fuselage Eric painted it with nail
varnish, thinned with MEK ! Looked real great !
I saw a huge Nelson in the hands of one of the locals, Bill Van der beek,
I think. Apparantly the story behind this is that the Nelson 60/65 was
commisioned for a RC Helicopter project. The lead person on the project
died so the imputus went away. It appears that Dukie now has the
casting and can deliver a Nelson .60 or .65. This is a front rotor engine.
A word of warning when starting this engine, don't choke it with your
finger- the venturi opening is big enough to devour most digits.
Norn nailed it - to be the only max out in the F1A event. Difficult
but by no means impossible conditions proved a challenge to all
the rest but Norm Smith flew consistantly to post the clear score.
Great to see Rich hanson, the District 10 AMA VP on the field.
Rich has the AMA district with the most members and
wide variety of activities. Inspite of activites
such at the Pasadena show that is attended by the AMA
not enought of us get the opportunity to discuss issues with
AMA representatives - particularily thos who are
active flyers. So Rich showing up was very much appreciated.
Texas Cloud Climbers Annual FF Champs
The Texas Cloud Climbers 55th Annual Regional FF Championship America's Cup &
National Cup Challenge will be held June 29-30, 2002, at Beaumont Ranch in
Saturday events: F1A, F1B, F1C, 1/2A gas, B gas, P-30, Catapult Glider, C/D
Classic gas, A Nos gas, Small Field Combo (CO2, Electric, .020 Replica,
Payload - Combined)
Sunday events: F1G, F1H, F1J, A gas, Mulvihill, HL Glider, A/B Classic gas,
1/2A Nos gas, Junior Combo (Rubber, Gas, Glider, Electric, CO2 - Combined for
FAC P-Nut, Rubber Scale, Power Scale, Electric Replica flown either day
For more info contact contest director Mike Fedor tel:(817) 277-1829 e-mail
if any one out there has a complete set of f1p plans
and if they would send me a set i would build one of
FAI at FFAMS - May 18-19
The FFAMS contest in Muncie over the May 18-19 weekend will have only the
mini-FAI events sponsored for America's Cup points as had been the practice
for the past years. For next year, the America's Cup Committee has informed
us that no more mini-only contests will be allowed for AC points.
I'm pleased to announce that the sanction for the contest has been amended to
include a combo F1A, F1B and F1C for those who still need opportunities to
qualify for the Team Selection finals. I've had a number of requests to do
just that and want to thank OC Stewart (the CD of record) for taking care of
the administrative details. However, no America's Cup points will be offered
for the combo event. We will fly seven rounds on Saturday. No super-max.
Details of the FAI events for Team Selection are not on the contest bulletin
as currently posted on the NFFS website.
For those of you who are interested in the details: We had originally
planned to run a full slate of America's Cup events for the above May weekend
when the Team selection finals were announced for Labor Day weekend...causing
a near conflict with the Aeronuts' FAI Invitational on Aug 24-25, 2002, which
I was going to move to said May date. The traditional sponsors of the FFAMS
contest (Joe Mekina and Lee Campbell) had secured the date from AMA, but
wanted to take a break and left an opportunity for the move. However, the
Finals date got changed to later in Sept so the conflict disappeared and the
FAI Invitational (y'all come) will be held on our traditional date in Aug.
In the meantime, OC Stewart stepped up and said he would run the FFAMS this
year with support from Lee Campbell and me. The bulletin for the FFAMS
contest can be found on the NFFS website.
One last item: I am considering resurrecting the currently defunct Hoosier
Cup FAI contest for 2003, probably in May (Mother's Day?) when the crops
around Muncie are not a chasing problem...only mud. More on this later
after I have a better chance to talk it over with the Indiana guys who used
to run it. Doesn't seem right to hold the Hoosier Cup in NY and we Chicago
guys let "Big Al" get away from us.
The Junior F1A program in France and SEN#694
At the begimmimg , there was a paragraph listing some of the work that had
been done to promote the "juniors". Within that list, there was an item
about the French F1A team for this year's Eurochamps, commenting and asking
a question as to how the team was produced that were all so very young. Many
of the older modellers and some not so old, have long been running classes
for the young. These men are in the main schoolteachers who can devote time
during the summer vacations as well as during the week and on weekends to
classes of construction. A design has been finalised in one case where all
the techniques for making foam wings, timers, fuselages, glass covering
wings under vaccuum etc., and when the models are all finished, instruction
is given in operating and flying them. Other cases are similar but the main
emphasis has been on the glider class, F1A, with the result that the son of
one of the teachers was a member of the 1993 Second team placing French team
in California, two Eurochamps and World Junior Champs have been produced.
The process has thus been ongoing for a long time, long before the 93
Champs. In addition, several high placings as the FIA team in the various
Junior Champs were achieved, including a win at the last Euro Junior Champs
as a team and individual.
What this tells us is that the French modellers were not co
ntent to sit and watch the movement wither and die, were not content to
write articles, or draw up plans for some youngster to build(if he could
find it!) but got off their butts and ACTIVELY worked to promote their
sport. Many in SEN are still seated, contemplating their navels. You MUST
get involved, actively, otherwise it's all over bar the shouting! Typically,
one english Wake and Cdh modeller said to me that he was quite happy for
freeflight to die as long as it did not interfere with his personal
enjoyment before he himself died!!! Unquote.
As a final note, at the '99 French FF Champs, there were 63 Junior
competitors. Repeat - 63!!! That was after they had been SELECTED beforehand
at the many regional small contests, using qualifying scores returned to the
Tech. committee who informed those who qualified some weeks before said
Champs. Thus the movement has many more than 63, all due to those who got
off their butts. Where else in the world do you find such numbers, perhaps
outside the Ukraine, Russia.,etc??? Search me!!
Safety and Fixed Props
Prior to converting from AMA gas to F1C, Randy Archer gave a demonstration
on "pitching a prop". This is a lengthy procedure that adjusts the mounting
surface so that both blades have the same pitch and track in the same plane.
It is followed by matching the 2 blades geometrically and balancing. Note
that the tip angle for a typical power prop is around 10deg, so a 1deg error
in mounting will cause a 20% difference between the blades.
As the late Stan Wennerstrom pointed out in his SYMPO88 article on folder
hub design, a major folder advantage is the long life which eliminates a
number of test flights to verify that the new prop hasn't upset the flight
pattern. Folders are also less prone to dynamic unbalance as the hinges
allow the blades to seek their own alignment.
More than the extra test flights and poorer balance on the fixed props is
the problem of undetected damage. It is very difficult to see cracks in a
carbon fiber prop blade, but they can ruin your day if they show up as you
are needling the engine.
Having worked in a turbomachinery test lab, I have the utmost respect for
the energy stored in rotating equipment. Even puppy props have a tip speed
of 400mph which is considerably faster than the tornado velocities which
drive straw thru fence posts.
Don't stand in the plane of rotation of any prop.
Hope the rules people are aware of the above when specifying fixed props to
"simplify" or "equalize" models.
Almost had an original thought, but am again just the messenger.
Keep up the good work,
Brokenspar rambles to the lake shore
..to th seashore, SEN 694
Michael Warren certainly rambles on, quit interestingly...
he gets to the seashore:
"..on the seashore, in the warm summer air, under Essex stars ".
Well, I remember, at the '40 Nats, - asking where the warm summer air,
and the stars were - , that one of the Aeronuts took me to Jackson
to the lake shore.
The 1940 Nats were in Chicago. Aeronuts were and still are in Chicago,
I'm from Detroit, still, I was maybe 17 at the time.
This informanion for friends from other lands.
Jackson Beach is on Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan is large enough
to have beaches and a horizon.
At eleven at night, the beach had street lights ( off Michigan Avenue
I don't remember stars. Stiffling hot.
( This is about girls, right Warren ? )
We were all at the Hotel Serman, bunking in complete disarray.
I mentioned I would like to see the stars, so one of the Aeronuts
offered to take me to see them. Jackson Beach.
We took a short ride on the El, which was deserted at that hour,
and got off to walk to the beach.
He said ' This is the beach'. We were at the head of the concrete
stairs that led down to the sand.
' Where are the stars ? '
He pointed, sweeping from left to right, ' Down there. Let's go down
On the sand everything was dim. Figures could be seen in the near
' Over here, behind this cement shed ', he says..' They come by here to
get to the stairs' We arranged ourselves so we could not be seen by
And here come three of them, their voices approaching. We were
against this concrete wall.
They came, and went by and up the stairs. In bathrobes.
Bundles of towles and stuff. Chattering. Didn't see us.
' Well? ', he says.
' That's it ? '
' You gotta talk to them. These were a little old . Better
earlier.'.... We're' up the stairs,
and on the way back to the El.
' Thanks ',
I'm looking at the sky. What's the weather for tomorrows' flying.....
Clouds, moving fast..
( This Aeronut would probably remember, if he is still with us.
Be great to hear from him ! )
Re: Youth retention
In a message dated 4/25/02 8:41:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Don Ross wrote,
> To Bob Norton, Over the past 30 years, I and my group have given uncounted
> seminars and building sessions using first Delta Darts then Canarsie
> (plans in MA) and although the kids were fascinated, only 2 kids in all
> years ever came back to build a second model. It's kind of discouraging but
> think it's also true--Don Ross
Likewise, an active local freeflighter and retired school teacher, Ernie
Johnson, integrated a thorough modeling curriculum in his (Jr. or High
School) Industrial Arts classes. He reports that no student today continues
free flight interest as a result of the many, many years he did this. In my
experience with Delta Dart sessions, most kids will accept the energy input
of an enthusiastic modeler, but that's all--it's just one way. Nevertheless,
Science Olympiad is producing a few real modelers, and is the wagon to jump
on right now, (and I have) because SO contains its own "brainy teens'
culture," an erstwhile missing social element. (Missing, that is, from a
gaggle of geezers standing in the desert or field looking into the sun.)
[I think a difference with the SO program is that it is a competition
i.e. it has a definite challenge and this helps maintain interest.]
2002 San Valeer's Annual Results
1/2A Gas (11) B Gas (7)
1 Bill Alnes Satellite TD.049 540 1 T.ThorkildsenAstrostar KB 3.5 1440
2 TomCarman Mini Pearl TD.04 502 2 John SparlingMarval KB 3.5 790
3 Steve Bruno Spacerod cyclon 481 3 Lynn Pulley Sloopy OS .25 643
4 Gus Sunberg Spacerod TD .049 474 4 D. Anderson Original KB 3.5 538
5 D. RounsavilMini Pearl TD.04 470 5 Jim Groove Astrostar Nelson. 360
6 BobDeShieldsFriscoKiddeHH049 470 6 M. Thompson Satellite KB 3.5 343
7 M.Thompson Satellite AME.04 463 7 Roger ColemanSatellite KB 3.5 168
8 Matt Kruse Kiwi TD.049 426
9 Randy Secor HooserHotshotfox 418 1/2A Gas Jr.(2)
10Lynn Pulley Airexpress cyclo 362 1 Cody Secor Orbiteer TD.049 530
11T. EllingtonTornado TD .049 337 2 Deangelo KusiHydrostar TD.049 237
C Gas (6)
1 Charlie TastSatellite Nelson 720 1/4A Gas (3)
2 Lynn Pulley KillerBee Nelson 651 1 Bob DeShieldsFriscoKidde TD.02 472
3 B. Augustus Duster Nelson 40 535 2 Del Adams Zeek TD .020 455
4 Tom Carman Texan KB 40 492 3 M. Thompson HotHead TD .020 421
5 T. ThorkildsAstrostar KB 6.5 429
6 T. EllingtonSatellite KB 40 360 1/2A Nostalgia (4)
1 Bob DeShieldsFriscoKidde HH049 900
Slow Gas (5) 2 Randy Secor H. Hotshotfox049 488
1 T. ThorkildsJupiter SuperTig 781 3 Steve Bruno T Bird HH .049 482
2 T. EllingtonSatellite Torp 4 671 4 Del Adams Ramrod Med .049 361
3 D. RounsavilMini Pearl TD .0 517
4 Tom Carman Texan KB .40 449
5 Randy Secor H. Hotshot Fox . 378
F1A (8) 1 Jim Lueken 1320
1 Hector Diez 1462 1 M. Mulligan 1320
2 Don Zink 1426 3 John Sessums 1311
3 Lee Hines 1285 4 Roger Morrell 1296
4 Peter Allnut 1218 5 Alex Andiukov 1168
5 M. Thompson 1192 6 M. Achterberg 1073
6 O. Kozlyuk 1178 7 Ted Vernon 906
7 Pierre Brun 1112 8 Allen Ulm 558
8 Dean Clark 829 9 Edward Woguli 512
F1C (5) F1J (9)
1 Doug Joyce 1313 1 Steve Bruno Satellite Cyclon. 1200
2 K. Happerset 1143 2 G. Menanno HeavensentCycl .0 1045
3 Fred Ginder 967 3 John SparlingMarval AME 791
4 John Warren 600 4 John Warren KC.061 580
5 Daryl Perkin 420 5 Tony RobertsoOriginal AME.061 550
6 D. RounsavillMini-Pearl TD.051 513
F1H (no contestants) 7 Del Adams Ellipsy MPJet Die 439
8 Ken HappersetCS.061 381
9 Lynn Pulley Y2KKS KC.061 120
A Gas (11) D Gas (5)
1 D. RounsavilMini-PeaTD.051 1980 1 Tom Carman Texan Torp .40 1980
2 Daryl PerkinWild Child Nelso 1722 2 Lynn Pulley KillerBee Nelson4 993
3 T. ThorkildsAstrostar K&B 3. 1201 3 Bruce AugustuStarduster Nelson 702
4 M. Thompson Satellite K&B 3. 823 4 T. ThorkildseAstrostar K&B 7.5 466
5 John SparlinStarduster ST.19 642 5 Daryl PerkinsSatellite 1300 HP 0
6 Bill Alnes Genie Cyclon .06 603
7 Jeff EllingtLazer K & B 3.25 450 Mulvihill (2)
8 Terry EllingSatellite K & B 383 1 William Ganno 540
9 D. Anderson Original K & B 3 353 2 Jeff Gannon 180
10Steve Bruno SpaceRod Cyclon0 288
11Jim Groove Astrostar Nelson 281 ABC Nostalgia (11)
1 Lynn Pulley Lucky Lindy Veco. 1015
F1G (7) 2 Bruce AugustuRamrod OS.29 1014
1 JohnSessums 968 3 Bob DeShieldsFKiddieJohnsonCS3 1008
2 Paul Herbest 840 4 Gus Sundberg SuperFlash Fox .1 974
3 Jack Emery 726 5 Mike ThompsonRamrodJohnsonCS35 705
4 Bob White 584 6 Terry EllingtTexan Fox.201 693
5 B. Critchlow 559 7 Fred Ginder Ramrod 750 OS.35 651
6 W. Gannon 525 8 Jim Hurst Ramrod750 Veco.45 517
7 Dick Strang 450 9 Vic LichtenbeLuckyLindy .29 497
10 Wes Funk Ramrod MaxIII.35 373
Cat Glider (3) 11 Bill Alnes Perdido OS.19 180
1 Lee Hines 345
2 Tim Batiuk 284 HLG (OPEN) (5)
3 S.Buddenbohm 266 1 Ted Vernon 512
2 S.Buddenbohm 468
P-30 (SR./OPEN) (7) 3 Lee Hines 390
1 Mike Keller Copycat 360 4 Bob DeShields 312
2 Dick Strang 346 5 Paul Herbest 150
3 M.Thompson AirShark 308
4 Randy Secor Minitwinfin 302 P-30 (JR) (4)
5 Chris PranelSquare Eagle 300 1 Cody Secor Super P-30 510
6 Jeff Gannon 251 2 Tyler Secor Sparrow Hawk 315
7 Ted Vernon Air Shark 184 3 Nick Tasto Square Eagle 288
4 Brianne KelleCopycat 216
JR Catapult (5)
1Nick Tasto 202 Jr HLG (2)
2Cody Secor 70 1 Tyler Secor 290
3Derek Pitre 65 2 Cody Secor 58
4Katlyn Dawso 59
5Chris Pranel 52 Bob Hunter Memorial(For Heart Foundation)
1 Lynn Pulley KillerBee Nelson. 12:25
CannonBall (2) 2 T. ThorkildseAstrostar K&B 3.2 11:01
1 T. ThorkildsAstrostar K&B 3.766 3 M. Thompson Satellite K&B 3.2 10:56
2 Lynn Pulley KillerBee Nelson488 5 Daryl PerkinsSatellite1300 HP. 9:22
6 Tom Carman Texan Torp .40 6:50
7 Steve MoffettDonation
8 Guy Menanno Donation
9 Dave Wagner Donation
Thanks to Gil Morris for his donation in support of SEN.