SEN 744 - 29 Sep 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 29 September 2002 issue 744
Table of Contents
===================
20 sec rule / radio DT - Aringer
Autumn Cup announcement - Simpson
Cheers for Biggles! - Shailor
Sierra Cup Update - McKeever
Timing at Finals - Rozelle
TIMERS!!!! - Donde
Balsa weighing scale - Ross
Re: Timing at the Finals - MAC the Bigot
F1E results - Kaynes
Saving free Flight
Fort Leavenworth Model Flying Flying Club - Editor
Florida Foibles
20 sec rule / radio DT
=======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
in the Last Stonehenge Cup following thing happen to me in F1C:
In the 3rd round I was forced to use my radio DT to rescue my flapper. As a
result of a hard landing before, my boom was in a wrong position and the
model was going with full speed to the ground. The DT came 5 m before the
model crash. The result was 11sec. and I stop the contest.
I can tell you I was very happy to have the possibility to rescue some 100 h
of hard work.
In a WC I would not use the radio DT because it is forbidden by some rules.
If I crash the model in the first 20 sec I still have the possibility to
make a new start.
The worst case is that this model will kill a person (in Hungary Gabor was
very close to hit a timekeeper in that way, I think we all were very lucky
in that situation). Who is responsible for such an accident???
- The competitor, who has the possibility to make a radio DT?
- The organisation including CIAM and FIA who are responsible for
rules?
In my opinion the best solution is that we throw out the 20 sec rule,
because then there is no doubt about what to do from the point of the
competitor. It is no solution to forbid radio DT, because then we would
forbid the possibility to safe lifes. In that case I would allow also the
possibility to longer a flight (if the model is flying over big trafic).
Please think about it and let us find a solution (hopefully for the next
WC).
Yours Gerd.
I did not quite undersatnd all the issues so I asked .....
[Gerd
I read what you wrote and it was not quite clear enough.
1. Is your idea just for F1C ?
2. if yes - is it just for safety reasons ?
3. Do you wnt to remove 20 second attempt rule completely ?
4. or do you want to say that if RADIO DT is used
and model lands before 20 seconds it is still an attempt ?
Roger]
clarification
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
1. In my opinion we have to throw out the 20 sec rule.
2. The only radio functions which should be allowed are:
- radio DT at any time
- longer a flight (DT-time + something by pulling a button)
3. For a safety reason especially in F1C, there should be rule created
for the next WC.
4. If radio DT is used, the time until the model lands should be the
time on the score-board (without the 20. sec rule there is no doubt about that)
Yours Gerd.
Autumn Cup announcement
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The 18th Autumn Cup
An American Cup Contest
Sponsored by the Tri-City Flyers AMA Club 850
USAF Auxiliary Field, Seguin Texas
November 9 - 10, 2002
For Classes F1A, F1B, F1C, F1G, F1H, F1J, F1P plus Open Gas and P30
__________________________________________________________________________
PLEASE NOTE THAT WE ARE FLYING THE NEW F1P EVENT
__________________________________________________________________________
Saturday Nov 9th F1A, F1B, F1C, and Open Gas - fly 7 one
hour rounds starting at 9:00 AM
P30 is flown to AMA rules, but not by rounds
__________________________________________________________________________
Sunday November 10th F1G, F1H, and F1J - fly 5 one hour rounds
starting at 8:00 AM
F1P is flown to FAI rules, but not by rounds
__________________________________________________________________________
SUPER MAX WILL NOT APPLY
__________________________________________________________________________
Fly offs will start 20 minutes following the last round of that days flying
__________________________________________________________________________
Entry Fees - $15.00 first event, $20.00 for two or more events
__________________________________________________________________________
The Open Gas event is open to any class of Gas powered free flight. It is
flown to FAI rules by
rounds, No restrictions on weight, area or fuel
__________________________________________________________________________
Motorcycles allowed for retrieval, riders must have eye protection and
Head Protection per USAF
Requirements. Cars may be used to retrieve but must stay on paved
surfaces. Snuffer tubes required for Fuse DTs
__________________________________________________________________________
There will be a Saturday evening awards banquet at the El Ranchito
Restaurant in Seguin at 7:30 where
the awards will be presented for all events concluded that day. All other
awards will be presented on the
field at the conclusions of the Sunday competition.
__________________________________________________________________________
Contest Director - Reid Simpson - 115 Trailridge Dr. Athens TX, 75751 Tel
(903) 677-8525
__________________________________________________________________________
Cheers for Biggles!
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The management at this years Finals in Palm Bay are to be highly commended.
A significant amount of work by very dedicated people.
Unfortunately, the management and modelers were let down by a few folks who
felt it was not their obligation to time or provide timers in their place.
How they figure this is fair is still a mystery to me.
I had proposed in a prior questionnaire that these flyers need to be
identified and their names published. Also, they get 5 seconds deducted from
their next Finals score, prior to flyoffs, for each round they felt too
special to time.
And if you want to fly two events, which means you consume three days of
timers, provide a timer for each day you fly and two for the day you fly
twice.
Gone are the days when volunteers would travel to a Finals to be a part of
the spectacle. We need to be self-sufficient. Drop out in the first to last
round, and you still need to time the next day.
Again, thanks to the FMA and all who ran the meet. Well done!
Bill
Sierra Cup Update
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
For those planning to attend the Sierra Cup October 11th and 12th, I thought
a list of available motel rooms might be of interest:
Marriott Hotel (916) 638-1100
Courtyard by Marriott (916) 638-3800
Fairfield Inn (916) 631-7500
Hampton Inn (916) 638-4800
Extended Stay of America (916) 635-2363
While we have had food available at the field in past years, that will not be
the case this year. Please make necessary arrangements. There are numerous
fast food and grocery facilities within 10 minutes of the field. Any
questions, send me an Email or call (916) 924-6920 days & (916) 967-8475
nights.
Timing at Finals
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
During my 7-hr drive south from Palm Bay, and down the Fla. Keys, to my home
base, I debated whether to make an issue of the timing situation at the Palm
Bay Finals. Martyn Cowley's excellent, perceptive analysis of the situation
prompted me to throw a couple of coppers into the pot.
I am not an active Finals participant, make that flier. But I have now served
six Finals as F1B event director, and therefore feel I am justified in
making a statement, considering that I am the one standing behind that
bullhorn, pleading for timers prior to the F1B rounds.
It is abundantly clear that the current Team Selection Program's guidelines
have insufficient teeth, as written, to enforce the requirements of Finals
participants timing on their non-flying days.
True, the disparity in numbers between F1B and F1A/F1C participants has
something to do with the ongoing problem. But it's crystal clear that some
finalists shirked their duties when it came to timing other events. This is
especially hard to stomach when you consider we had situations such as a
contestant who had a death in the family, but wanted to fulfill his timing
responsibilities as long as possible, and still make his flight home. And he
did, despite assurances that doing otherwise would be understandable.
Without the diligence of Jim and Joe Juhl, Ron Sharpton, Tom McCoy and Harry
Grogan (timing between directing his F1A rounds) we would not have made it.
I have a deep devotion to supporting the Team Selection Program. Since the
early 1980s I have served as F1B director for Finals, whenever called upon,
from Seguin to Lost Hills to Palm Bay.
But I will be reluctant to again volunteer my services, with their
considerable attendant time and expense involved (I was at Palm Bay Motel 6
for eight nights), if the current scenario of Finals participants not
fulfilling their timing duties, is permitted to continue.
Some severe penalties are in order. It's time, in marble-shooting parlance,
for "hard down, steady knucks." Let's get on with some responsibility,
folks. And some knuckle-rapping for those who don't tend to their duties!
Walt Rozelle
TIMERS!!!!
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear Warden (AKA Martyn Cowley),
Right on Martyn!
Except that the 2 years timing duty should be exchanged for 2 years in
federal prison with optional hard labor.
Seriously now, how about going back to the old Pete Sotich Bong days when you
flew one, timed one. You could not get a timer if you did not have a check
marked next to your name evidenced that you timed one.
To enforce this, the CD, or the Time Keepers Honcho, issued coupons for every
time you timed so you can go ahead and cash them for your timed flight.
Thermals
Arik Donde
By the way, Pete ran the finals, that were run all three event concurrently,
single handed. The rounds were 1.5 hours long and the event were each 1 hour
that were started staggered.
I can still hear Pete voice TIMERS!!!!!, 30 years later.
Balsa weighing scale
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I am writing an article on how to scratch build from 3-views and I feel that
proper choice of balsa density for various components is important. I want
to recommend electronic scales but also something less expensive. I recently
saw a sketch of a wire deflection scale in a newsletter but can't find it.
Is there a plan for a wire deflection scale that can weigh balsa sheets 3X36
up to 50 grams ? don Ross This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Re: Timing at the Finals
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Avoiding commitment, Timers at the finals
Martyn Cowley hit the nail on the head regarding the lack of timers at
the finals. There is no excuse for any competitor not taking on the
agreed to responsibility and doing his fair share of the timing chores.
I too give the organizers lots of credit for dealing with an
uncomfortable situation brought on by some of the flyers passing the
buck and avoiding their commitment. What in fact happened to remedy the
problem was that those timers who were doing their job ended up taking
up the slack for the slackers. That is not an equitable solution
although it worked as a stop gap measure. I concur with Martyn that
except for serious extraneous circumstances (injury, family
emergencies. etc) that if a participant does not follow through with
the timing commitment then they get disqualified at the end of the
contest. We are too small a group to have a number of people among us
who for whatever reason decide that they are more important than the
rest of us and can shirk their civic modeling duties. Said in a
different way, some asses need to be kicked and the modelers who flaked
on timing duties need to be confronted and told how the rest of us feel
about it. I'm not in favor of any public humiliation or lynching but
perhaps the finals director or some other designate should contact the
people involved and make it clear to them that their behavior is not
acceptable. I have no problems with formalizing it within the contest
rules so that the problem does not occur again. Any other ideas from
anyone?
Mac the sweaty, soaked, itchy, and tired Bigot.
F1E results
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger
Re F1E results in the last issue. For easier reading readers can refer =
to the results I have put on the FAi web site at
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/competitions/free_flight/ch02/ff02.htm
Regards
Ian
Saving free Flight
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I read with intrerest the words that touched home in respect of saving Free
Flight and offer my point of view.
These days, I am possibly the youngest on the airfield where I fly in
Yorkshire (33 in october) and I have often wondered why. I believe that it
is not so much to do with the implementation or relaxation of the BOM rule,
its to do with the fact that f/f models do not come in glitzy boxes and are
freely available off the shelf at your local store. The model shop is about
a mile away from me and when I go in, I am met with lights, pictures of
biplanes, gliders all doing crazy things and a good few hanging from the
roof. These models can be taken away upon production of cash and within an
hour the youngsters are away to their local fields and hopefully, flying
safely. If freeflight could be marketed in such a way that it was all glitz
and Jazz, maybe we would have a chance of introducing new blood.
Unfortunately, computers are very hi tech, kids love to go angling and want
results now, not in weeks time. Lack of patience has to be something that
has an influence on kids these days and draws them away from the airfield.
I am lucky, 33 years ago when I was born, I was taken to the airfield at a
few weeks old, my father gave me time to help build small rubber models and
my first glider - a great model called Night Owl which he still flies. I
was brought up on the field on a weekend where Paul and I would take our
bikes and race up and down all day, then helping dad launch and keeping us
involved with timing, retrieving etc. Due to this fact, I watch everything
that flies and still adore the smell of the fuel used in F1C and diesel and
all power events. I love the thrill of winding rubber and launching the
models away as much as I admire the skill of all glider fliers and then
watching these models float in silence after release.
I thrill to the challenge of hlg, hence why I created the newsletter to give
something back to free flight to what I have taken so much. Unfortunately,
a severe shoulder injury may curtail my activity a little for the future
that I will not recover from.
Free flight modelling and the 33 years of chasing them and building them as
well of two very supportive and continuing parents has kept me off the
streets as a kid. when my mates were out burning rubber in cars, possibly
messing with drugs, I was home guided by my parents hands and readying
myself for the weekend. I put the fact that I have never been in trouble,
am relatively healthy and love what I do down to the sport that I fly.
Three years ago, my wife and I were blessed to have a son Christopher, I
take my son on the airfield who helps dad throw his hlgs, he races off to
collect them as well as any small other models that I have flown, when he
arrives he stops, takes his time to collect and walks back carefully, to do
it all again. He has about five small Worcraft Wonder hlgs in his bedroom
and he throws them daily in the garden and is actually causing me concern as
to his strength. He goes into my room and picks up models with so much care
that if I wonder where he has gone, I am not even remotely bothered if hes
up there. he knows what to touch and what not to - although I do keep a
quiet eye on him (chemicals and all dangerous stuff are locked away)
He loves airplanes, watches them all, stands with the power fliers when they
fire up as if he was born on the field (my wife went into labour on an
airfield!- does that count?)and its second nature to him.
I guess that to get kids to learn to fly free flight, one has to look at
oneself and ask what have I done to encourage one?
We have not the glitz of rc planes, cars, boats, but I am proud to be part
of a extremely close knit comunity that shares themselves, are honest as the
day is long and whose friendship I cherish more than any money can buy.
Have a great day to you all and go on, knock up a chuckie and give it to the
kid next door or down the street and if you have not got any plans - gimme a
shout, I have in excess of 200 all that I am prepared to share with any of
you. It may just ignite a small flame and prove that its not expensive, its
just brilliant.
Kev
Fort Leavenworth Model Flying Flying Club
==========================================
While not not wishing to excuse any of my fellow F1Bers I will point out
that the siutation is a little more complex than mentioned by Biggles et al.
This situation is not unique to these finals, it was not really an issue
last time at Lost Hills but was a problem at the previous Palm Bay Finals -
except at that finals F1A flew on the first two days so Biggles was less
affected.
I also applaud the excellent job done by the organizers and in particular
Walt Rozelle, who made a number of wise decisions throughout the running
of the F1B events. I would particularily like to thank those who
timed that were not part of the core organizing team.
But the organizers did fail to provide sufficent timers on the very first day
looking at the entry list there were clearly more F1B flyers
than there were F1A contestants. I do agree that after much catawauling
we always did end up with sufficent to fly. One timer admitted
that he could not see for 3 minutes and after he credited John Clapp
with a max when his model D/Ted shortly after prop stop the organizers
did relieve this person of his timing duties. John himself reported it.
Now on the second day the situtation was not a lot better, while
attrition had reduced the number of F1B flyers, it had also reduced
the number of F1C modellers. Looking at the entry list F1C had
by far the greatest number of no shows and DNF. While my namesake
Mr Simpson did not fly on the first day as he was conducting Walston
field tests in the back 40 [see below] he did show to time as he clocked
me on one of the early rounds but a nunber of the DNFs
were not there. While my observation is purley subjective
I did not see many of the stand in timers that day.
On the third day I had to leave early [beacuse of a long standing business
commitment] but did not see the procedure to register my coach as my replacment.
If registration is required to stay out of Leavenworth .. he did time all day
and I did most of the rounds.
I also noted that the 3 F1B team members did not time as they were all
of finding their models - they all did provide stand in time keepers
but it may not be apparant that Tiffeny O'Dell was the stand in for
Blake Jensen. How were we supposed to note this ?
In looking at the above I wonder in Squadron Leader Bigglesworth's
note would a no-show sportsman or even one that was present but did not fly or
time go visit the buffaloes in Kansas ? [Buffaloes do indeed graze
outside the Federal Penal Institution at Ft Leavenworth - but
it is probabaly to windy to fly FF]
Up to this point no one has addressed the issue of should we have
the finals at Palm Bay anyway ? The organizing team did an excellent
job in preparing the flight lines and all similar logistics. But the
down wind retrival is terrible. At the distance of about a mile from
the flight line near the pylons and the seconds canal the trees make
very difficult conditions. This was a target d/t area for many rounds.
My model landed there many times and I always got a signal and to
it very quickly - except on 2 rounds it took me over 45 minutes
to get the actual model. Once because in was on top on a dense growth of small
trees and the second time because it was in reeds over a canal.
Under most circumstances I would have gone into the canal but was reluctant
to do so because I was covered with open cuts from the tree
episode and canal water smelt so bad. I did go back and borrow a mega-pole
from the organizers. - Thanks - I figured that if Ron Sharpton regularily
flew D-Gas there he had to have a serious pole.
If I remember correctly from the last
finals at Palm Bay, while the canals were there a large
amount of this brush had been cut back.
In addition to the on field hazards, I note that all 3 F1B team members
and at least one F1C all left models for later retrival over the third canal.
Access to that area was not completely straight forward, according to a
couple of encounters with local law enforcement. Not exactly an idea situation.
Judging by the time it took Bob Piserchio to get his model back, if
you went where he did it could be counted out of bands for the contest.
The final and new hazard was the ATV and bike riders. We can summize that
was only one bad egg who ran over 2 F1Bs and 1 F1A. But looking at the
F1B sportman - one was Bill Shailor's, a serious contendor and the
other Greg Simon's - a new comer doing very well in his first {?}
finals - not exactly a great intro. While I'm sure we might have got some
sense of satisfaction if Terry Kerger and the Van Nest's son Kurt
had caught the ATV rider, it's probably not what calmer heads
would want us to do. After the last incident the
ogranizers sent people down wind to montior ATV activity. On that
flight I maxed and landed within 100 yards of a group of ATV riders.
There was no offical there and these guys could have easily run over my model
by accident as it landed in the 'mogul' section where it
is hard to see the ground any distance ahead.
My personal approach is that I will go fly where ever there is a contest
and whatever weather and I will not give up. I like Palm Bay from the point
of picking air. But a site where the luck of where you d/t
and there are a number of major physical hazards is probably not
the best place to pick a team.
To quote my friend and mentor Norm Furutani
- "after every finals there are 9 happy guys and a couple of hundred
who want to change the rules". So what do we need to look at ?
Clearly the time keeper is an issue, in terms of contestant's obligations,
extra time keepers, what is the procedure from providing a substitute, ..
There was some discussion about when you should be permitted
to substitute - Clearly we wanted our team members to go and
find their models. In my case I might not have been able
to attend if I could not have a substitute is that OK ? If someone
damaged a model on the first day, was supposed to time on the second
but spent that fixing it and got a sub is that OK ? ...
Can we have a site and format that does not discourage particpation,
ensuring that we have a good team this year and for years to come ?
There was some bickering about the fact that one person entered in 2 classes
so did not have to time. This sportasman, Bob Sifleet did fly both
classes but he did eventually abandon F1C.There have been situations in the past
where people have entered two classes and never flown one, allegedly to
avoid timing. This needs to be clarified.
Florida Foibles
================
Award for the top Rental car goes to Aram Scholsberg with the metalic
gold PT Cruiser.
On Blake Jensen's retrival shopping list was - rubber boots aka Wellies aka
gum boots , inflateable dingy, golf ball retrival pole [Blake was cheap
on the paddle and found that pushing a roundish dindy across a canal
with the aforementioned pole was not easy] and this was in addition
to the brolly, bug juice etc ...
In reading Walston's Ad Jim claims that the new 4 battery model to have a 5 mile
range on the ground. While he says that he did not test that to the limit
Roger Simpson reports an 3.5 plus mile practical test that by a back
of the envelope calculation would have been 7 or 8 canals away.
............................
Roger Morrell
