SEN 752 - 1 Nov 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 1 November 2002 issue 752
Table of Contents
==================
Bike for sale - Clapp
AmCup Eligiblity - Parker et al
F1B wing warps - Woodhouse et al
Gummi Gossip
Tan rubber update - Clapp
Tan II and F1B - Cole
Where to without Tan II? - Woodhouse
.TAN II RUBBER supply - Smith
The "Rubber" situation - Norvall
Competitive rubber - Brooks
Cox TD15 - McKenzie
Some NFFS Sympos needed - Indoor Tim
Source Kevlar Towline - Bradley
BEST WATER SPRAY FOR TISSUE - Curth
Bike for sale
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Honda Express Moped for sale. $ 125.00 50 cc, stored at Lost Hills.
!982, runs very good. Good chase bike for L/H. Reason for selling: Have
new bike
Contact: John Clapp This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
AmCup Eligiblity
================
A formal request was made to clarify the AmCup eligiblity rule. This issue
was boarded at the Oct. 30, 2002 SCAT club meeting, Jim Parker presiding.
The 2002 AmCup rule states:
1) Designated contests must be flown in accordance with the provisions
of the FAI Sporting Code and as follows.
d) Contestant eligibility is restricted to permanent residents of the
United States, Canada and Mexico. New permanent residents must contact the
Administrator to establish eligibility. Other foreign competitors are not
considered in the quantity of entries or in the individual scores.
Sections of FAI Sporting Code General Section were reviewed:
3.1.3 International Sporting Event. A sporting event in which entry is
open to participants from more than one NAC.
3.1.5.1 Continental Championship. An international sporting event open
to participants from all NACs within a specific region defined in the
Sporting Code (see para 3,5,4) and, in case of vacancies, to competitors
from other invited, non-eligible NACs. The competitor, or team from one of
the NACs within that specific region, with the highest aggregate score at
the end of the event, shall be the winner and be awarded the title of
that Continental Region's Champion.
3.1.5.1 Championships for Other Regional Groupings. As above but for
other regional groupings of countries not included in 3.5.4 (see below)
but approved by CASI for the specific championship concerned. This
includes groupings within continents or trans-continental groupings.
8.1.3.1 Identification
8.1.3.1.2 The residency of a person means the place where a person
usually lives for at least 185 days in each calendar year because of
personal and occupational ties, or in the case of a person with no
occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links
between that person and the place where he or she is living.
8.1.3.2 A person shall not at the same time hold a Sporting License
issued by more than one NAC. An individual who under the provision of
8.1.3.6 elects to transfer from one NAC to another, may be issued a
sporting license by his new NAC only after notification to his former NAC
and after withdrawal of any valid sporting license issued by that former
NAC.
8.1.3.6.1 A citizen of a country may be issued with a FAI Sporting
License to represent the NAC of that country, except that if a person has
multiple nationality, he (or she) shall not have represented a different
NAC in any FAI airsport activities during the three years preceding the
event concerned.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
After a lengthy discussion revolving around the term "permanent" and
"resident", the following proposed rule change which utilize some of the
FAI language was offered as a motion, seconded and voted on. The vote was
unanimous to accept the rule change as worded below. This change will be
effective for the 2003 AmCup cycle. The rule below will be used as
advisement on a one on one bases for any specific issues that might arise
before the end of the 2002 AmCup cycle. Contact Jim Parker,
with any specific issues.
d) Contestant eligibility is restricted to (strikethrough: permanent )
residents of the United States, Canada and Mexico. The residency of a
person means the place where a person lives for at least 185 days prior to
the start of the AmCup cycle for which they desire eligibility. This
residency is based on personal and occupational ties or in the case of a
person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties, which show
close links between that person and the place where he or she is living.
New (strikethrough: permanent) residents must contact the Administrator to
establish eligibility. Other foreign competitors are not considered in the
quantity of entries or in the individual scores.
Note: This proposal does not mention Nation Aero Club Sporting License and
so by omission, an eligible AmCup flyer may have a Nation Aeroclub Sporting
License from any country. Also, if your name was listed on a 2001 or
earlier published AmCup score sheet, then "contact the Administrator to
establish eligibility" requirement as been fulfilled.
Thermals, Jim Parker
F1B wing warps
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I am trying to put together some thoughts on wing warps in F1B. Attached is
a questionnaire that I would ask all and any interested F1B flier to
complete. All thoughts and ideas are welcome. I would like to try to put a
paper together with the conclusions that I can hopefully ascertain!?
Peter King and Mike Evatt have assisted me in the drawing up the questions.
Wing warps in F1B
Questionnaire
The purpose
To ascertain what wing warps are being used and why. The
traditional assumption of warps based upon a combination of
wash-in on the inner panel and wash-out on the tips appears to
be under challenge. The purpose is to ascertain what warps
are currently being used and their relationship to other trim
devices used is also being sought. I would like to ascertain
the current thinking in order to appreciate what I could do to
improve the performance of the breed.
The questions to be answered
* Why is this change happening?
* What wing warps are in current use?
* What are the perceived advantages/disadvantages of
particular warp profile?
Detail questions
What wing warps are you using on your models? Warps to given
in degrees relative to the centre line of the model.
* Left tip.
* Left inner at dihedral break.
* Left inner at centre
* Right inner at centre
* Right inner at dihedral break
* Right tip.
Are you using any form of wing incidence change during flight?
If so
* Which wing, positive or minus?
* What is the timing of the change?
* What is the amount of change?
* What other linked changes are carried out, their action
and timing.
o VIT,
o Rudder first change.
o Rudder second change.
Have you changed you warp profile recently?
If so
* Why?
* What was the previous profile of warps?
* Did you have to make other design changes?
* What benefits arose?
Comments
This is probably the most important bit. I would like to know
the reasoning behind why the particular warp profile you use
is the best.
* Why do you use it?
* What are the advantages?
* What are the problems?
* What are your ideas for the future?
Michael J Woodhouse, Norwich, UK.
Free Flight Supplies now has secure internet credit card facilities.
All mail to: -
web site: -
Gummi Gossip
=============
Tan rubber update
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The factory has accepted the challenge to try to develop Tan Super
Sport. Lets all keep our fingers crossed. They are currently into lab
tests and research. Many have offered their help, suggestions, and
support. To all we say THANKS and we will be in touch if need be.
John
Tan II and F1B
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
As a long time flyer of Wakefield, I have suffered through many batches of
rubber from T-56 to Tan II and the improvements made by Ed Dolbe and John
Clapp have made the flying better and better. Now we are faced with the
loss of Tan II. This means that newcomers and those who are out of the top
grade of rubber cannot compete until all of the Tan II is used up. At the
risk of stirring up a hornets nest, I would like to propose that F1B
competition be opened up to a lower grade of rubber with increased motor
weight allowed. For example, if Tan Super Sport turns out to be equivalent
to Tan I, then we would allow 40 gram motors. The rubber would have to be
dyed or otherwise identified. The determination of equivalent motor weight
is not a simple matter and should not be based on just bench testing, but
should include flight tests by top competitors.
Hank Cole
Where to without Tan II?
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
A few thoughts. Firstly we owe John a debt a vote of thanks for continuing
and progressing as he has done the supply of rubber. It has to be obvious
that our demands are more trouble than they are worth to a golf ball
company.
The sport rubber is not as good as the real stuff. Those who have hoarded a
stock of Tan II will have an advantage over the rest. The newcomers are cut
off straight away as they are too late to the party. The effect will be a
reduction in particpation in all competition classes, not just FAI. If we
don't act quick this will do a lot of harm to our past time.
So what to do? What are the choices?
I suggest a couple ways out:
Alternate supply? - Who? where? and what? - A long shot or what!
Adjust the rules to cope with the stock supply. This is not without
precedent. The rocket/space guys use different stock motors for their
classes as do the power flyers. So how about some form of handicap? In F1B
30gms Tan II or 40gms of Sport? How would one recognise who was using what?
Perhaps the mixing process could add a colour to the Sport? Coloured "fuel"
is not unusual, there is such a thing as tax free "red" diesel.
Lets think our way out of this rather than believing it is end of the World
as we know it Jim. Let's get a debate started.
I'll continue sitting on a reasonable stock of Tan II (offers not accepted!)
and trying to think of way around this problem.
Michael J Woodhouse, Norwich, UK.
Free Flight Supplies now has secure internet credit card facilities.
All mail to: -
web site: -
TAN II RUBBER supply
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The news of loss of TAN II production is indeed gloomy - there will be
problems ahead particularly in competitions where some still have TAN II and
others not.
The obvious question is - if this critical ingredient is no longer produced
- what would it take to have the suppliers produce a batch specifically for
runs of TAN II production for the Free Flight community?. Is it a chemical
and are the batch sizes enormous? It might be feasible to get money up front
from interested modellers to get a batch produced. I am sure FAI Model
Supply have looked at all options, but it would be good to know just how
special is the missing ingredient?
-Dick Smith
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The "Rubber" situation
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I've been a active rubber flyer for over 3 decades. I
find it hard to believe in todays technology that a
quality rubber strip can be produced at a reasonable
price. F.A.I. has made the F1B motors smaller and
smaller as the quality grew. Well it appears now we may
have to reevaluate the motor weights. What is the
future of gummy bander? If things don't change it could
be an episode of "Where are they now". I for one am
keeping very close track of my rubber inventory. I find
myself reusing motors over and over. My supply is
dwendling ever so rapid. Years ago I can remember at
least 3 different suppliers of quality rubber. We have
a very small percentage of rubber consumption in the
world. We need to start looking into new sources of
synthetic rubber or our sport will "Die". I respect
John Clapp for taking over FAI and running with the
ball. I believe that there was to many secrets kept at
FAI that precluding many sources of information,
producers, or research from coming in. Because of this
a once lucrative producer of rubber has moved on with
its technology and left our little hobby behind. Our
sport has professors, engineers, technicians that could
have helped in developing new sources. But I believe
because of profit reasons none of these avenues or
ideas were explored. We need to open up a think tank to
try and relieve our rubber shortage issue. I can only
relate this type of sharing to my line of work. When
all agencies involved in the same area of thought get
together it opens an open flow of fresh and new ideas
as well established ideas to met the needs. Our hobby
is a world wide venture. I'm sure world wide there is
sources of rubber products that could be used in our
sport or at the very least could produce a product
suitable to rubber free flight.
One last thought. I see the need for some product
competition in the realm of rubber. The cost of staying
competitive in FAI events is growing wildly. I for one
am a very competitive type person and will look for
other avenues to feed my competitive needs after my
rubber supplies end.
Check out Ebay. There is several one pound boxes up for
bid in hobby section. Starting price is $25. Wow.
Ideas? Express them. Larry Norvall
Competitive rubber
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The end of tan ll:
Does this mean the end of F1B? Will this
indicate a move back to 40g. if you can prove that you aren't using tan
ll?
Cox TD15
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I would like to purchase 2 venturis and 2 spray bars for the Cox TD
15`s. Can anybody out there assist? email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Some NFFS Sympos needed
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I am in need of some help from the free flight community. I am working on a
NFFS sponsored project to create a CD archive set of the 34 years worth of
NFFS Symposiums that have been published. With the help of the NFFS and some
very forward thinking fliers I have managed to procure 31 of the 34 years. I
am still in need of 3 volumes to complete the set so the archive can be made
available. What is still needed is:
1975
1982
1983
What I need is for some one(s) to be willing to donate these volumes to the
project. They are scanned on automatic high speed equipment that required
the bindings to be cut off so the volume becomes a stack of loose sheets.
That has been a sticking point with a number of people that do have these
volumes. If the donor desires we would happily return the material after
scanning, but it will be as loose sheets. Donors will get a complementary
set of the complete archive so they will have full indexed access to all the
material.
So, if you are one of the individuals that have any of these 3 volumes
please consider donating them to this project. It will preserve the material
for the future and it will allow many people to gain access to this valuable
material. It will also help support the NFFS through the proceeds of this
project. Think about it, isn't that better than having your family throw
them out when they clean the house after you are no longer around to protect
them???
These 3 issues are the only thing holding us up on completion of this
project and making the archive available. Anyone willing to help please
contact me directly at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Tim
[Denver, CO]
Source Kevlar Towline
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Kevlar towline in 100 LB and 200 LB sizes is available from Bradley Model
Products. Bradley Model products also carries carbon fiber sheet, precut
carbon fiber spars and trailing edges, Kevlar cloth and thread, carbon fiber
cloth, and fiberglass cloth in addition to towlines and towreels. You can
view the web site at: http://members.aol.com/bmp4carbon/
Jim Bradley
BEST WATER SPRAY FOR TISSUE
===========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The subject sprayers can now be purchased at WAL-MART as well as at SALLY
BEAUTY SUPPLY as I reported earlier. They come in plastic bottles. DO NOT
buy the pressurized metal can.
At Sally it is marked Citrus Mist- look for the plastic pump bottle.UPC #
is 89995-12805.
At WAL-MART it is called Ultra Citrus, also in a plastic bottle. UPC # is7
5847-47262 for the Citrus. They also had other scents, I chose Citrus.
They are Air Freshners and Odor Eliminators. The ladies like them. Content
s can be stored in another bottle while you are using the sprayer.
In addition look for Bordons Elmers Contact Cement- it CLEANS UP WITH WATE
R. I use it diluted with water 2 to 1 to apply film to indoor models. Chuck Mar
kos uses it to attach film to his F1A tails-perhaps not the 2 to 1 dilution. A
damp cloth nearby will keep your fingers clean. It comes in a +/- 4 oz bottle.
Tru-Valu lists in on their warehouse computer listing.
Otto Curth Chicago Aeronut
PRICES of Citrus Spray plastic bottles
======================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi,I forgot to include prices for sub
ject sprays.
At SALLY $5.99
At WAL-MART under $4
Since you only want the empty bottle and spray head try WAL-MART first.
Otto Curth
Applying Elmer's Contact Cement
===============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I forgot to mention above subject in prior letters.
Being a contact cement applying it to both surfaces to be bonded will make
a permanent joint.. Only apply to the wood, let dry and then apply film o
r tissue. Covering can be peeled off and repositioned if need be.
Sorry but age is catching up with me.
Otto Curth
.......................
Roger Morrell
