SEN 766 - 19 Dec 2002
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- Category: Archive 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 19 December 2002 issue 766
Table of Contents
=================
2004 USA Jr Program and F1P
Rapier jets
Wanted - Nelson 15 RE Case - Simpson
South West Regionals Entry Forms - Nystedt
Desert Challenge Flyer - Hotard
Curvilinear Motion Problems - Morris
Rubber Conspiracy Theories - Blackam
FFn - Kaynes
New letters - Klintworth
Poles and stuff - Roberts
F1C Area - Boutillier
Legality of folders: - JO'R
Legality of "folders"? - Skykieng
Thanks
2004 USA Jr Program and F1P
===========================
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Soon Jim Bradley will be sending out the approved USA 2004 Jr Team Selection
Program. The August 2003 NAT will make up 50% of the team selection points
which sets the timing for the issue below.
Recent info from Pierre Chaussebourg is both F1J and F1P will be flown at
the upcoming Jr European Champ. Ian Kaynes has printed it in FFN. This
format will likely be flown at the 2004 Jr W.C. and will be discussed at
the FF Technical meeting in March.
The 2003 Jr European Champs power event will fly F1J or F1P. F1J will have a 7
second engine, 3 min Max (yes 3 minutes). The F1P will use the current rules
of a 10 second engine run and 3 min. max. Also, a 4-person power team can be
fielded if one flyer flies only F1P. The best 3 scores count for team
standings.
So with this said, SCAT, Stockton Gas Model Association, and Sierra Eagles have
committed to develop a USA Jr F1P development program. This will be an
incentive program to provide up to 6 Cyclon engines to those Jrs that
demonstrate a worthy F1P airframe. I am currently working to put together a
Start-up package of rules, building, trimming and a set of plans.
The last item is programmatic. I've contacted the two known USA sportsmen that
have flown an F1P. Both Don Wilkinson (scaled down Summerwind) and Reid Simpson
both believe their designs need further refinement before being used in the
Jr F1P development program. Bob Stalick has completed a F1P but has not
flown it . Same with John and John Jr Lorbiecki.
Here's the requests. Are there any "proven" F1P designs out there? What is the
state of development in Europe? Have any of the "Model Factories" started work
on F1P?
Please prove any useful information to me: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The purpose of this request IS NOT to reopen the F1P good / bad discussion
so please do not send such.
Thermals,
Jim Parker
SCAT President
Rapier jets
===========
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Do you know of a source for Rapier jet motors in the US. You may have
noticed in the English mags how popular small scale FF jats are over
there. GA Tampa, Fl.
Wanted - Nelson 15 RE Case
==========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I'm looking for an early Long Stack Nelson 15 RE with a good case. It has to
be the one that is Dark Colored and has no flood-off boss behind the Needle
Valve body. If you have one please contact me.
Ed Carroll, if you read this please contact me. Doug was pretty sure that
you would have one of this model.
Thanks
Reid Simpson
903 677-8525
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
South West Regionals Entry Forms
================================
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Guys & Gals:
I am running way behind this year, and I am not going to have the time to
get the South West Regionals entry form out via snail mail. You can register
at the field (with no monetary penalty) or get the entry form at
www.aalmps.com/FAIentry.htm. If you have the time, I would appreciate as
many preregistrations as possable ... less hassel for both of us. Hope you
have a great holiday season and look forward to seeing you in January as we
begin the quest for the 2003 America's Cup winners.
-- John Nystedt CD --
Desert Challenge Flyer
======================
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THE DESERT TEAM CHALLENGE FUN FLY
January 4 and 5, 2003 -- TAFT SITE
YOU ARE INVITED TO ENJOY A WEEKEND OF LAID BACK FAI, AMA, & OLD TIMER =
FLYING. OPEN GLIDER, OPEN RUBBER, & OPEN POWER
BRING: ANY FAI---AMA-OLD TIMER MODELS
BBQ FOOD, TABLE SERVICE, TABLE AND/OR CHAIRS,=20
CHARCOAL & GRILL, PROPANE LATTERN
CONTEST:
THREE ONE HOUR ROUNDS STARTING AT 1 PM SATURDAY
FOUR ROUNDS SUNDAY MORNING STARTING AT 8 AM
ROUND LENGTHS WILL BE ADJUSTED TO INDIVIDUAL NEEDS
WE WILL RUN TWO TO A TEAM DEPENDING ON NUMBER OF ENTRIES
ENTER TEAM NAMES ON THE SCORE SHEETS FOUND ON THE TABLE
ALSO SIGN INSURANCE FORM
RECORD FLIGHT TIMES ON SCORE SHEET YOURSELF AND TIME YOURSELF IF =
NECESSARY
FLY PER FAI & CAT II RULES---3 MIN MAXES, EXCEPT WHERE 2 MIN IS STD FOR =
YOUR EVENT. NO FLYOFFS---MAXED OUT TEAMS IN THE THREE CATAGORIES, WILL =
DRAW NAMES FROM A HAT. WE CAN BE ON OUR WAY HOME SUNDAY BY 1 PM
GATHER:=20
WOOD FOR THE BIG BONFIRE!!! IT IS ESSENTIAL WE STAY WARM AFTER THE =
BANQUET.. LOOK FOR WOOD WHILE RETRIEVING AND GO AFTER IT AFTER THE =
ROUNDS ARE IN. BRING WOOD FROM HOME PALLETS MAKE GOOD FIRE!!
BANQUET:
START THE CHARCOAL. SUNDOWN IS ABOUT 5 PM -SET THE TABLES SPREAD OUT THE =
FOOD AND SHARE YOUR GOODIES!!
WATCH FOR KIT FOXES-OUT AT THE EDGE OF THE FIRELIGHT
AWARDS:
FIRST PLACE TEAMS IN GLIDER-RUBBER---POWER WILL RECEIVE GLASSWARE =
TROPHIES.
COST? A fiver should do it.
PETER ALLNUT HAS BEEN FAITHFULLY GATHERING WOOD, AS USUAL.. THE CONTEST =
DIRECTOR WILL BE BOB NORTON (661) 395-0261..
--AL HOTARD
Curvilinear Motion Problems
===========================
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Before I bust a gut trying to solve the following two problems, does anyone
out there have a ready solution to them?
Problem 1:
1. F1C model climbs straight up and engine cuts off.
2. After A seconds the stab deflects Alpha degrees from power setting for
bunt.
3. Bunt is held for B seconds at conclusion of which model is horizontal
moving at glide velocity.
Given:
1. Model velocity is 110 ft/sec at the instant the engine cuts of (non
geared engine).
2. Model weighs 26.5 oz and total drag with power settings at 110 ft/sec is
26.5 oz.
3. CG to stab 1/4 chord measures 44".
4. Wing area is 525 sq in and stab 60 sq in. Wing AR is 21:1.
5. Normal glide velocity is 20 ft/sec.
Determine value of A, B and Alpha for optimum altitude.
Problem 2. Repeat Problem 1 except same model traveling 120 ft/sec at engine
cut off (geared engine).
Gil Morris
Rubber Conspiracy Theories
===========================
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>The Rubber controversy and FAI supply
>=====================================
>Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Gotta love the conspiracy theories (my life is a misery, it couldn't
possibly be anything I did... therefore there must be a government agent
oppressing me)
Nevertheless I have to weigh in here! Probably get myself in more trouble
:-)
Recent batches (the ones that were released) of FAI TanII were ALL good.
Vastly higher energy than ANY pre-Clapp TanII rubber. I have tested
rubber consistently going back to the Pirelli days and the best Pirelli
was around 4500 ft-lbs/lb of energy. The WORST TanII since 1995 was 4718
with the VAST majority being well over 5000 ft-lbs/lb. In fact I have not
tested sub-5000 rubber since May99 and THAT batch, like every other one
showed significant variation through a box. For example I did 2 recent
tests on sequential pieces of May99 (ie two adjacent 300mm lengths). One
was 4795 and the next was 5017. That's a 4.7% difference within the batch
(within a metre no less).
Why am I saying all this? Because the point I would like to state is the
following:
The reason a small number of people always seem to get higher and glide
longer than 90% of the rest of the F1B fliers is because they have spent
thousands of hours on the details. The details most pertinent are:
1. Careful adjustment of trim and
2. Careful selection and understanding of rubber/motors.
Yes there are variations between rubber batches. But in recent times
there has been a higher percentage of variation between motors within the
box than between the batches themselves.
Maybe the guy next to getting 600 turns on his motor compared to your 420
is using a longer motor (less strands) than you, maybe he has worked out
how to wind it so he gets more turns on it AND maybe he has adjusted his
model to climb at the same rate as yours but on lower power. Probably if
you swap motors he'll still beat you.
There IS NO conspiracy. The rubber comes in and John sells it. Simple. He
has no reason not to do it that way. After all EVERY World Champs in the
last 10 years or more has been won with FAI rubber! He doesn't need to
sponsor strong fliers to advertise his product.
Some people buy lots of rubber, of every batch if they can. Then they
test it and decide which seems better for which purpose.
YOU can do that too if you want the best rubber. But I can tell you this:
most people I have seen fly F1B could get a bigger performance increase
by more carefully adjusting their model than by using a better batch of
rubber (or even selecting motors). If you look at it that way, it's a
criminal waste to use those few specially good motors in less than
perfectly trimmed models.
At the end of the day, unless they make a mistake, the Kulakovsky's,
Andriukov's and Piserchio's are going to win no matter what batch of
rubber they or you have, because they made more test flights than you and
understood how to improve them better than you. This is not a put-down of
the rest of the F1B fliers, it's just the reality of the standard. You
either see it as a challenge and take it on face to face or you accept
that you probably can never beat them. Don't (as Mr. Laffler apparently
did) crawl away whining that someone else has an unfair advantage.
Richard Blackam
FFn
===
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Roger
Could you please give this news to the world through SEN:
After a number of suggestions from readers I have now set up an online
payment facility for Free Flight News. This should allow subscriptions to be
paid by credit/debit card with much less currency exchange overhead, and
also quicker and easier than mailing a check. The price has increased
slightly for 2003 but the price in US $ should work out less than the
previous $ rate I quoted (which had to support the massive charges made by
UK banks for clearing $ checks). It is set up through PayPal which serves
most but not all the countries in which FFn has readers. The FFn web page is
http://www.btinternet.com/~kaynes/ffn.htm
or go straight to the order page at
http://www.btinternet.com/~kaynes/ffnbuy.htm
Also, while on the subject, please note that I have changed my email address
to
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Regards
Ian Kaynes
New letters
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger: We were away from the 20th of November until the 9th of December
and I was wondering if there were any SCAT newsletters from you. We
shut down our compter and didn't receive anything during that time. If
you have copies, could you email them to us. Thanks you. Phil
Klintworth
[Phil and other who ask this question - Back issues are kept on the
SCAT website
www.aeromodel.com/scat
]
Poles and stuff
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have been getting collapsible poles from Jann's Netcraft. You can get
a catalog from their website at www.jannsnetcraft.com
The poles collapse to 45" not 40" but they work great. Lots of other
small fishing items we can use in the catalog. Not much online as yet.
Mike Roberts
F1C Area
========
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Jim wrote:
> Rules obviously set well defined, narrow limits for total
> maximum/minimum surface area(s) to keep models on a common basis; surely
> a F1C folder has a total area well below the minimum when configured for
> the power phase of the flight so how is it acceptable?
>
> Just curious, no axe to grind, quite possibly the situation is covered
> by addendums to the basic FAI rules.
F1C area is defined by a minimum loading of 20g/sq.dm.
Hence there is NO minimum area and a folder is legal from the basic FAI
rule.
Not the same for F1A/B which have a minimum/maximum area requirement.
Bernard
Legality of folders:
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In F1B the wing area must stay between 17 and 19 dm sq. So, only 2 dm sq.
can be allowed to fold.
But F1C rules don't specify an area, only a minimum weight and a minimum wing
loading. Since folding the wing makes the wing loading go up, there is no
restriction on the amount of wing tha can fold.
JO'R
Legality of "folders"?
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The question posed is:
> Looking at a photo of a rubber model with folding wings (from 1943,
> yet..) I'm now idly wondering how folders are legal in FAI classes.
>
> Rules obviously set well defined, narrow limits for total
> maximum/minimum surface area(s) to keep models on a common basis; surely
> a F1C folder has a total area well below the minimum when configured for
> the power phase of the flight so how is it acceptable?
Its been some years since I pondered the FAI rules as applying to Folders.
Unless some change has been made there is no problem in FAI Power rules with
the folder configuration as currently used by Leonid and myself. But for
sure in Nordic, and I believe in Wakefield also there is a largish minimum
area requirement that nixes the idea in the bud. (Folding would be of little
use in a Wake, but a Folder in Nordic? Wow! ...that could make for some
sensational airplanes and launches!)
The only apparent obstacle for a folder in FAI Power was for once and all
dismissed after untangling the fuzzy rule requirement that the model be of
"fixed wing" configuration. In reality the term is not concerned with flaps
or the singular folding or unfolding of a wing but is merely a term commonly
applied when differentiating a helicopter from whatever we first think of
when hearing the term "air-plane." Now if the Folder --when once unfolded at
altitude -- then did a double cross and allowed the wing to spin around and
around -- and thus by default become an autogyro -- then THAT adventurous
act would be an obvious rules infraction requiring the cheating
flyer/designer to be hauled off by irate competitors to be torched and
carbonized with 80-20.
Aaaaagh! Now please don't spoil my fun with irresponsible talk about the
illegality of folders-- hearing such puts me in a state of panic! I get
suicidal considering the years of effort expended chasing down that
particular labyrinthed rabbit trail .... to think I would be axed and
beheaded at what should be the heady moment of finally emerging to unveil my
super-duper toy airplane to the combined amazed befuddlement and despair of
my Power modeling peers. Or something more or less like that.
Billious Giesking .... AKA Skykieng
Thanks
======
Thanks to Lee Hines and Brian Van Nest for their donations in support
of SEN.
...............................
Roger Morrell
