SEN-499 November 10 2000

News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 10 November 2000 issue 499

Table of Contents
Extended round confusion - Crowley
For Sale, Williams book and carbon razor blades
Tractor vs Pusher Props - Andresen
Reply to Jason Ding - Toto in Kansas
OZ FF is still alive - Stowe
Scaled Composites - King
Any more F1A clearance sales? - Buxton
Southwest FAI Challenge - Zeisloft

Extended round confusion
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I think this is a question for Ian Kaynes. Due to the various
interpretation I've seen of the new extended max rounds would you please


Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

We also do a decal paper for photo copiers, check our web site


For Sale, Williams book and carbon razor blades
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I have a copy of the first printing of the Ron Williams book "Building &
Flying Indoor Model Airplanes" that I am putting up for sale auction style
on my website. No, it is no the signed copy I just traded for.

Also, I just got a limited quantity of real snap to a point carbon steel
double edge razor blades that I am offering for sale. They are Candidius
brand and made in Germany. If someone wants to just check them out I am
offering 4 blades for US$1.00 and a self addressed stamped envelope. Other
quantities are listed on my website.

If you are interested in any of these go to my site at
and look at the For Sale page.

Thanks for tolerating the ad.

[Denver, CO]

Tractor vs Pusher Props
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Good question. The first thing you'll read is that pushers are more
efficient because they reaccelerate the wake resulting in lower momentum
loss than a tractor with a wake and a high speed wash off the prop. This is
true if centered behind a body of revolution like a torpedo.

In the real world pushers often have lower efficiency as they are behind a
wing or strut which changes the angle of attack as the prop blade passes
thru the wake.

Doug Joyce stopped using pushers on his canards due to poorer engine cooling
w/o prop blast on engine. Turboprop pushers cook the prop with the exhaust,
especially on the ground.

Tractors have less problem with torque control as the helical prop wash
reacts on the wing etc.

Long skinny pusher prop blades run at a much higher vibratory stress as they
pass thru the wake of the wing or struts ahead of the prop. This can lead
to fatigue failure. Bad.

Pushers are great on boats, protecting the props from weeds, logs, people

Which is best depends on the application. For most aircraft the tractor is
the direction of choice.

Good luck,

Reply to Jason Ding
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Pusher props are "good news-bad news."

Under good news is the fact that the fuselage (or engine nacelle & wing) in a
pusher installation are flying around in lower speed air, being out of the
prop blast. This lowers the drag. Also, in a tractor situation, if the
shape of the fuselage or nacelle is such that the airflow would want to
separate, this would also raise the drag. Placing a pusher prop right behind
the offending body often results in the airflow being kept attached to it,
lowering the drag.

Under bad news is the difficulty of getting the aircraft to take off from a
level surface without the prop contacting the ground.

Another bad news aspect has to do with the use of an aluminum prop on a
full-sized aircraft: Aluminum alloy is very poor in metal fatigue.
Generally, an aluminum prop can't be used where it is located in the wake
behind a wing or other lifting surface.

Jim O'Reilly

OZ FF is still alive
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I would like to be included in your email list if possible.
Perhaps those of you who considered coming to Australia in 2001( before we
relinquished the hosting of the World Champs) would like to still come
"down under".
The Australian Free Flight Champs and the New South Wales Free Flight
Society Southern Cross Cup for F1a, b , c, April 13-19 2001 Narrandera NSW

Regards Tahn Stowe

Scaled Composites
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Here is an interesting web address for Bob Rytan's company and projects. It
is a great site if you are interested in such things.

Here is are links to his company,
"Scaled Composites"... Look at "projects"

Peter King

Any more F1A clearance sales?
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I would like to know if anyone else has any used F1A's for sale out there.
I would like to purchase a bunter that utilizes readily available hardware.
Mechanical and electrical timers are both acceptable. I've seen a couple
posted here recently, and understand there were some available at the

As a background, I have two zoom gliders that I built in the early nineties
(modernized Pacer 15's with Jim Bradley hardware), and would like to get an
example of a bunt model to get back into the sport. Any comments or
suggestions along these lines will be graciously accepted.
Thank you
~Jim Buxton
~~Columbus Ohio.

CD Report of the 5th Annual Cactus Jelly Contest, Oops,.....the
Southwest FAI Challenge
by Jon Zeisloft, Contest Director, 11/9/00

In the days before the dawning of the contest, the weathercast looked
ominous! Rainy, windy conditions were predicted for both days.
Friday afternoon, during set-up and as the first contestants arrived,
heavy overcast skys and cold winds prevailed with a bit of showers to
the south. Roger Morrell, on the SEN, has stated that weather
forecasting 'is not an exact science', so Saturday, was a huge
surprise to all. It dawned nearly clear and calm for the first
round. As the second round opened a strong west wind hit the field,
but quickly tapered off to a manageable breeze in mid-round. The
remaining rounds had only light and variable breezes, and mostly
SUNSHINE. Sunday was a day of calm to very light and variable
breezes all day, and SUNNY, which was ideal for the mini-FAI events.
Those conditions contributed to a marathon of F1H flyoff flights
(more on that later).

The mid-week weather cast undoubtedly influenced many to not make the
trip to Eldorado. This certainly was the case, for the co-run FAC
scale contest. Several well-known scale modelers called and declined
to commit their models to the 'predicted' winds.

In spite of the weather forecast, US contestants came from AZ, CA,
ID, NM, and NV; and international contestants from New Zealand and
Ukraine. As always, this meet is a great time to revisit old
friends, and to make new friends. It was a pleasure to meet Jon and
Evan Davis (NM) for the first time and to introduce them and Bruce
Augustus (ID) to the Eldorado flying site.

1. The highlight-of-highlights of the contest was the sequence of
the last F1H flights. As the sun settled in the west, and
contestants, timers and spectators trickled off the field to return
to their homes, two fierce but friendly rivals dueled for the gold in
F1H. As each round (12 total) opened those remaining on the field
hoped the contest would soon be settled. Only after both men made
the 8-minute flight, and the sun dropped below the horizon, did it
seem possible that the 9-minute flight would be the deciding flight.
That became evident as the air cooled considerably after sunset. It
was a rare privilege to watch two such highly skilled competitors,
and two models of such closely matched capability. In the end, even
though the scores were separated by 99 seconds, both Brian Van Nest
and Martyn Cowley scored at the top in my book! Unfortunately, the
records only allow one first place, and it went to Brian with a score
of 2825 seconds. And, oh by the way, Brian also won F1A!!!!

A special thanks to those who remained late to help with the flyoff

2. Bob White's long string of MAXs to win P-30.

3. Bob White introducing his P-20, reportedly to be available soon
as a kit from Al Brush. A great concept and 'cute as a bug'. It
looks like a shrunken Mini-Twin-Fin.

4. Several contestants have been here all five years of the
Southwest FAI Challenge, including 'Is he flying it backwards?
Joyce'; question actually asked by one spectator. Thanks to all the
five year 'veterans'.

5. Dallas Parker achieving Junior High Time while surpassing his
father's time by a good margin.

6. Roger Morrell taking the time to allow a group of five spectator
boys, 11 to 13 years old, to experience winding his F1B. They did
not wind the motor to full power, but they were all duly impressed.

7. Cactus Fruit Jelly - Last, but not least, were the jars of
prickly pear jelly traditionally given at registration to each
contestant by Shirley Zeisloft. In fact, many contestants claim they
return each year for the jelly, not the contest or the flying!

Junior FAI Team Fund:
This is a challenge from our club to yours. Following a concept
introduced in 1999 (suggested by Shirley Zeisloft) each contestant
who 'placed' was given the choice of receiving a nice trophy plaque,
or having the equivalent funds, about $15, donated to the Junior FAI
Team Fund. This year, as in 1999, the vast majority of winners opted
to have the money sent to support the Juniors. Thanks to all for
your generosity. Please let me know how many other AMA clubs accept
this challenge, and offer this option at their contests.

Thanks to FAI Model Supply for sponsoring the prizes for the first
three places of the three Rubber events, and to HobbyTown USA for
sponsoring the remaining event winners.

F1A (11 flew)
Contestant Times
Van Nest, Brian 1260+300+270 1830
Beschasny, Vasily 1260+300+200 1760
Davis, Jon 1260+300+183 1743
Parker, Dallas 1237
Kozlyuk, Dimitro 1224
Joyce, Kate 1191
Parker, Jim 1144
Hines, Lee 1120
Brun, Pierre 968
Brocks, Peter 918
Zink, Don 0 (two attempts first round; other rounds DNF)

F1B (11 flew)
Contestant Times
Tymchek, Bob 1290+255 1545
Malkin, John 1290+155 1445
Booth, Bill 1278
Morrell, Roger 1272 (1613*)
Chritchlow, Bob 1272 (1524*)
Wood, Richard 1248
Sessums, John 1243
Batiuk, George 1240
Piserchio, Bob 1224
Davis, Evan 1065
Rohrke, Rich 534
* tied in contest for 4th place; tie-breaker flights shown in
parentheses for Americas Cup placing.

F1C (1 flew)
Contestant Times
Joyce, Doug 1194

F1G (10 flew)
Contestant Times
Peterson, Alan 600+180+240 1020
Zeisloft, Jon 600+180+102 882
Critchlow, Bob 600+180+75 855
Tymchek, Bob 600+162 762
Morrell, Roger 600+126 726
Levy, Marc 581
Brocks, Peter 536
Wood, Richard 445
Batiuk, George 421
White, Bob 320

F1H (5 flew)
Contestant Times
Van Nest, Brian 600+180+240+300+360+420+480+245 2825
Cowley, Martyn 600+180+240+300+360+420+480+146 2726
Hines, Lee 600+180+240+129 1149
Beschasny, Vasily 578
Davis, Jon 190

F1J (2 flew)
Contestant Times
Augustus, Bruce 600
Robertson, Tony 590

P-30 (4 flew)
Contestant Times
White, Bob 360+150+180+210+240+178 1318
Holt, Bill 360+129 489
Levy, Marc 324
Hodes, Bob 309
Zeisloft, Jon 92

Catapult Glider (4 flew)
Contestant Times
Hines, Lee 284
Levy, Marc 140
Brocks, Peter 130
Hodes, Bob 109

As I wrap-up this contest report I can’t help but wonder, where were
all the “Power” fliers?

Thanks to all who came and enjoyed Eldorado with us locals. Next
year it will be even bigger and better!

Roger Morrell