SEN 2813 - A bit of a stretch …

SEN 2813

A bit of a stretch …

1. F1A Proposed proposal Falling down.
2. I’m starting F1B but F1Aa break too
3. I did read the rules
4. Where is it written ? (in the rule book ??)
5. Simple is Better
6. Why
7. Editor’s Observations

F1A Proposed proposal Falling down.

From:Peter Tribe
To me this whole theme gets more bizarre day by day.

How did 'fitness' get into this matter; well I know where it came from, but
why?? Falling over is either an accident or perhaps intentional whether you
are fit or unfit.

I am over 80, and lucky to be relatively fit for someone of my age, and can
still manage to achieve a reasonable F1A launch.

On some occasions I have unintentionally fallen/tripped over as I launched;
I imagine that we all have done this, especially on uneven ground or on wet
grass. I would be rather upset if, having accidently tripped over during
the launch, I found out that my maxed flight was disallowed because my
timekeeper had  judged that I had done it deliberately.

 It is no good Christoph saying that you can take it again for your 'second
attempt' if this *was *in fact your second attempt, or if you believed that
you had got a max and consequently you didn't hurry or manage to get back
to the line before the end of the round.

As I mentioned previously, I can think of far greater risks of injury in F1
and other forms of model flying activity than intentionally falling to the

Peter Tribe

I’m starting F1B but F1Aa break too

From: Stuart Darmon

Having now completed two F1B's but flown neither yet in anger I don't presume to argue with Mr. Fitch, but I'd assumed the effect of winding during the round is the same as that of reducing the time allowance- to generally increase time pressure on the competitor,cut down opportunity for air picking and somewhat reduce the probability of big flights (without altering model specs). It's Clear, unambiguous, and a sporting tactical decision for the flyer as to how best to use his/ her time. True, it might make it tighter to get a reserve wound too, but we in F1A are under greater pressure. if we tow in, blow up a stab (or, if the new rule goes through, trip and put a hand on the ground) we have to race back to the pole and tow up a reserve, which is not something we can do in advance and reach for in the dying seconds of the slot.                                     Stuart Darmon

I did read the rules

From: Charlie Jones 

Ok, I will bite and join the conversation. 

The rule reads The organiser will establish a 7 minute period during which all fly-off competitors must launch their model. Competitors may use one rubber motor which was wound before the start of the 7 minute period and may wind additional rubber motors during the period. Within these 7 minutes the competitor will have the right to a second attempt in the case of an unsuccessful attempt for an additional flight according to para 3.2.5. Starting positions will be decided by a draw for each fly-off.

The key words are "use one rubber motor which was wound before the start of the 7 minute period".  There is no limit to the number of motors that can be wound.  The term "use" is related to an attempted flight.  If you break a motor in the model while putting hand winds in then you have not used the motor as you have not attempted a flight.  If you launch the model and achieve a flight of less then 20 seconds, then you have used the motor and now must use a motor that was wound during the 7 minute period and not before to make a second attempt. This is the interpretation we used at the 2019 World Championships and was approved by the jury and explained in detail at both the timekeepers meeting and team managers meeting.  Yes, it puts additional responsibility on the time keeper to make sure the competitor follows the rules.

FAI Model Supply does encourage the winding of as many motors as you like or is possible prior to the flyoff period

Charlie Jones

Where is it written ? (in the rule book ??)

From:Michael Achterberg  
Hello all.  The new rule change about winding before start of round has never been clear. How many motors can be wound? When can you winde? Does a broken motor count as your one wound motor now? Rule should be simple and consistent.. If you winde an hour before who cares!! But do not see why we cannot wind motors for 2 models. Who cares how many motors you wind before round starts?? What is the reasoning? You blow up a motor in flyoff ratcheting a turn on in a 7min flyoff window that model is down for the count. What happens if it happens with 2 minutes left? You run back to your stooge hoping to winde another motor and throw in a minute or so?? Seems like the competitor should have the option to fly his backup model with motor ready to go to allow him to at least get his flight in. Blown motor too punitive!!  Now, this is good for every competitor. It is not an advantage to one flyer. It will help every competitor at one time or another..It is just good sportsmanship!!  


Simple is Better

From:Richard Blackam

I'm with Jerry. Delete all references to the time of winding. It will simplify things. Furthermore, the rule that demands the timers watch the flier wind is superfluous and simply causes unnecessary delays for competitors in team events having to wait till the timers are free to be able to wind. No serious or even half-serious competitor is going to let someone else wind their motor. I'm pretty sure that rule is a hangover from when motors were impounded and the timers had to watch you take a legal motor, install it in the model and wind it to make sure you weren't switching it.

Why ?
From:Peter Martin  
I would echo Jerry Fitch by asking what problem is solved by the proposed rubber winding rule change?  I already asked this question on Facebook and got no response.   Someone needs to explain why it matters when or how many motors are wound, as long as the timekeeper observes and the model is launched in the window.  The same rules apply to all competitors.  At the moment, it feels like a solution looking for a problem.
Peter Martin


Editor’s Observations

1. For Stuart – F1B takes more time than any other class – more time to set up at the beginning of a contest or move rounds, more time to prepare motors, more time to wind …
2. For the F1B flyers, while you may not understand the rules it is good to see that the CD at the last World Champs does.
3. For the info of F1B guys almost any change to the launch rules of F1A models, diving, letting go the line, moving or not the hook, will obsolete some models. Some people bought or build LDA type models that , for them, requires a diving launch to get it off properly.
4. ....