SEN 2145
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Table of Contents - SEN 2145
RE: SEN 2144, Aram's suggestion
From: Michael Achterberg
Hello.
I would approve the modification of team selection for our Finals written by Aram.
By doing so everyone has to fly the second day and usually everyone's flying skills have improved.. Mikey likes it!
Thermals to all Dinosaurs...
[Note - we hear that Aram got some negative feedback- but the only one we got was positive, from Mikey]
Szablo Miklos Memorial
From:Vegar Nereng
Thank you for explanation of result delay.
As many competitors experience with competition in East of Europa,
no briefing and no presentation of jury members, therefor is it difficult to
make any protest of decisions. I think also this result may be is the best
without protest.
But I hope every contest directors in the future run a briefing and talk
together with the competitors if something is difficult before we start the competition.
Many of us have been around the world and experienced how we together can
come up with a solution of any problems. Communication is always the best way.
Have a nice summer with many good contests.
Vegar Nereng
From Free Flight on FB - - wired Rubber
Chris Edge
A serious question for the rubber guys (hey, this may even reach the hollowed pages of SEN if we get a discussion going !). If technology these days is capable of doing things better/faster/cheaper compared to what the human can do, why do you all still wind by hand ? That is so analogue, baby ! Isn't it time to go digital and get optimum turns each time ? What is it that stopping you ? If you look at the automated tester of Pete Brown then why not use some of that logic in a power driven winder, or is there something so subtle that even the best minds can't figure it out ? As I say, a serious question. CHE
Ismail Sarioglu: In my view, NOT a good idea.
And, next bright idea is retrieval drone :)
Tho Wie: in POLAND some people winding the rubber with electric winder. I see the whole junior team 2015 in Salonta work with electric winder: they won the Team F1B (European Junior Championchip 2015)
Riho-Ats Saatväli: but they break more rubbers, they dont "feel" motor enough
Ismail Sarioglu: Indeed, I have seen Polish team wind rubber with e-winders since a long time. Most of the time, they break the rubber very successfuly :)
Andrzej Łukaszewicz , what do you say ?
Christian Schwartzbach: Where do we find info on Pete Browns automated tester
Kevin Lamers: https://youtu.be/np78KE8OX3Q
Rubber testing machine
Automated testing machine for F1B and F1G rubber motors. Built by Pete Brown…
youtube.com
Kevin Lamers: I developed a similar machine. It is practically finished, just needs some tweaking before actual testing can start.
I agree with Chris, automatic winding should be possible and not much worse than doing it by hand. I see some logistical problems though, carrying such a machine to the field ;)
Bill Shailor: In spite of all testing, rubber motors vary from one to the other. Winding by hand gives a better feel in terms of torque. You don't get that kind of feedback unless you wind by hand.
Riho-Ats Saatväli: yes, you can wind one rubber 430 turns and another one 380 turns at same lenght
Chris Edge: Of course each piece of rubber will wind differently but if you are simply monitoring torque then you can automate the process and maybe with better control. I do think a human measures more than torque however but maybe you don't even know you're doing it. Electric winders were used back in 1982 I think but not with any torque monitoring. I think you should be monitoring torque continuously, not just every winder turn - would it be better if you could ? CHE
Roger Morrell A reason why electric winders are good for young juniors is that they may not have sufficient core body strength to maintain a stable posture while winding. This comes as the person gets older and his helped by playing some sports. One of the difficulties is transporting the Lipo battery if you travel to the contest by air. You can measure the torque by putting the torque sensor on the stooge While you can feel the torque when you wind by hand you ability to judge it can be affected by fatigue. Hence the hand wind sensor that Andriukov sells ( and uses)
................
Roger Morrell
- Aram's suggestion
- Szablo Miklos
- Wired Rubber
RE: SEN 2144, Aram's suggestion
From: Michael Achterberg
Hello.
I would approve the modification of team selection for our Finals written by Aram.
By doing so everyone has to fly the second day and usually everyone's flying skills have improved.. Mikey likes it!
Thermals to all Dinosaurs...
[Note - we hear that Aram got some negative feedback- but the only one we got was positive, from Mikey]
Szablo Miklos Memorial
From:Vegar Nereng
Thank you for explanation of result delay.
As many competitors experience with competition in East of Europa,
no briefing and no presentation of jury members, therefor is it difficult to
make any protest of decisions. I think also this result may be is the best
without protest.
But I hope every contest directors in the future run a briefing and talk
together with the competitors if something is difficult before we start the competition.
Many of us have been around the world and experienced how we together can
come up with a solution of any problems. Communication is always the best way.
Have a nice summer with many good contests.
Vegar Nereng
From Free Flight on FB - - wired Rubber
Chris Edge
A serious question for the rubber guys (hey, this may even reach the hollowed pages of SEN if we get a discussion going !). If technology these days is capable of doing things better/faster/cheaper compared to what the human can do, why do you all still wind by hand ? That is so analogue, baby ! Isn't it time to go digital and get optimum turns each time ? What is it that stopping you ? If you look at the automated tester of Pete Brown then why not use some of that logic in a power driven winder, or is there something so subtle that even the best minds can't figure it out ? As I say, a serious question. CHE
Ismail Sarioglu: In my view, NOT a good idea.
And, next bright idea is retrieval drone :)
Tho Wie: in POLAND some people winding the rubber with electric winder. I see the whole junior team 2015 in Salonta work with electric winder: they won the Team F1B (European Junior Championchip 2015)
Riho-Ats Saatväli: but they break more rubbers, they dont "feel" motor enough
Ismail Sarioglu: Indeed, I have seen Polish team wind rubber with e-winders since a long time. Most of the time, they break the rubber very successfuly :)
Andrzej Łukaszewicz , what do you say ?
Christian Schwartzbach: Where do we find info on Pete Browns automated tester
Kevin Lamers: https://youtu.be/np78KE8OX3Q
Rubber testing machine
Automated testing machine for F1B and F1G rubber motors. Built by Pete Brown…
youtube.com
Kevin Lamers: I developed a similar machine. It is practically finished, just needs some tweaking before actual testing can start.
I agree with Chris, automatic winding should be possible and not much worse than doing it by hand. I see some logistical problems though, carrying such a machine to the field ;)
Bill Shailor: In spite of all testing, rubber motors vary from one to the other. Winding by hand gives a better feel in terms of torque. You don't get that kind of feedback unless you wind by hand.
Riho-Ats Saatväli: yes, you can wind one rubber 430 turns and another one 380 turns at same lenght
Chris Edge: Of course each piece of rubber will wind differently but if you are simply monitoring torque then you can automate the process and maybe with better control. I do think a human measures more than torque however but maybe you don't even know you're doing it. Electric winders were used back in 1982 I think but not with any torque monitoring. I think you should be monitoring torque continuously, not just every winder turn - would it be better if you could ? CHE
Roger Morrell A reason why electric winders are good for young juniors is that they may not have sufficient core body strength to maintain a stable posture while winding. This comes as the person gets older and his helped by playing some sports. One of the difficulties is transporting the Lipo battery if you travel to the contest by air. You can measure the torque by putting the torque sensor on the stooge While you can feel the torque when you wind by hand you ability to judge it can be affected by fatigue. Hence the hand wind sensor that Andriukov sells ( and uses)
................
Roger Morrell