SEN 1246 - 21 Sept 2008

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Table of contents - SEN 1246 - 21 Sept 2008

  1. It's the Dessert 
  2. South West FAI Challenge
  3. Write to Don B
  4. Indoor World record
  5. USA F1E Team Selection
  6. Radio D/T Oddments
  7. SEN


 All About October, Appetizer & Dessert

From: Bill Booth


For those of you who crave more than the three course meal of Livotto, Sierra Cup and The Finals, don't forget the San Diego Orbiteers have a full slate of FAI events scheduled at the Dual Club Annual next weekend, September 27 & 28 at Lost Hills and a gourmet dessert, the Southwest FAI Challenge Americas Cup event at El Dorado Dry Lake in Boulder City, Nevada on October 25 & 26. The flier for the Dual Club meet was linked in SEN 1245 (9/14/08). The flier for Boulder City will be out soon.

Bill Booth Jr.



OCTOBER 25 & 26, 2008






For Classes: F1A, F1B, F1C, F1G, F1H, F1J, F1P, F1Q (Light) AND P-30

Saturday October 25th: F1A, F1B, F1C and F1P

(7) One hour rounds commencing at 8:00AM

Round 1: F1A, 210 Seconds, F1B and F1C, 240 Seconds, F1P, 180 Seconds

Rounds 2-7: 180 Seconds

Saturday Fly Offs will begin at 4:30PM (weather permitting)

Sunday October 26th: F1G, F1H, F1J, F1Q (Light) and P-30

Tie-Breaker “Espresso Fly-Off”(No Max): F1G 7:30-7:40; F1H 7:45–7:55; F1J 8:00–8:10; F1Q 8:15–8:25

(5) 45 Minute rounds commencing at 8:30AM

All Rounds: 120 Seconds

F1Q (Light): 20 Second Motor Run, 120 Second Max, All Rounds

P-30 8:00AM to 12:00PM, No Rounds

Sunday Mini-Event Flyoffs

No later than 12:30PM (45 minutes after close of Round 5), any required flyoffs will begin. The first flyoff round Max will be 180 seconds for all events. The second flyoff Max, if required, will be 240 seconds. If a winner is not determined at the conclusion of these two flyoff rounds, the Expresso Flyoff times will be used to determine final placing.

Note: F1Q flyoffs will follow this same format except all flyoff flights will be limited to a 15 second motor run.

***There will be NO timers provided. Please find someone to fly and time with you.***



Perpetual Trophies to winners in F1A, F1B, F1C, F1G, F1H and F1J

Glassware 1st through 3rd place for all events, including P-30 and winners of Espresso Flyoffs

Entry Fee: $25 for first F1 event entry, $10 for each additional F1 event entry

P-30 $5, no entry fee for Juniors or Espresso Flyoff

Contest Director:

Bill Booth Jr. Bob Beecroft

5092 Nighthawk Way 3488 Linda Vista Terrace

Oceanside, CA 92056 Fallbrook, CA 92028

(760) 842-1079 (760) 723-2499

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Directions to El Dorado Dry Lake:

On Hwy 95 approximately 7 miles south of Hwy 93. Access through the Desert Tortoise fence is on the west side of Highway 95 on the north edge of where the power lines cross the highway. The flying area is to the west, approximately in the middle of the lake bed. In the early morning, the field is approximately 35 minutes drive time from the Las Vegas “Strip”. Camping on the field is permitted.


Write to Don B

From: Richard Blackam


Indoor world record 

No Gene, I had no clue, but it is great for Aki & Ishii!
Congratulations are definitely in order!
That is about the time[100sec approx] some of us projected as
possible in a really big hall.

Aki, we need pix and an article for the NFFS Digest, please.
Just a superb feat...

 From: Gene Ulm 
To: Lee Hines 
 Did you see this: 1:42 glider flight indoors?


Gene Ulm,  

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 new world records

Posted by: "Akihiro Danjo" This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.  akihirodanjo

Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:57 am (PDT)

We, Ishii and Danjo, had a record trial at Odate Jukai Dome in Odate, Akita
on 10 Sep.
The dome is 46.8m high ceiling.
Good flying, Aki

Sub-class :F1N (Indoor Glider)
Category: F1: Free flight
Type of record : N118-d: Duration (ceiling over 30m)
Course/location : Akita (Japan)
Performance : 1 min 41.2 sec
Modelflyer : Mitsuru ISHII (Japan)

Sub-class :F1M (Indoor Aeroplane, extensible motor)
Category: F1: Free flight
Type of record : N117-d: Duration (ceiling over 30m)
Course/location : Akita (Japan)
Performance : 21 min 57 s
Modelflyer : Akihiro DANJO (Japan)






 F1E Team Selection Contest

Please publish the following report in SEN.
The 2009 Team Selection Contest for F1E was held NE of Flagstaff, AZ on September 6th and 7th.  This area has many
volcanic cinder cones generally devoid of vegetation with elevations approximately 1,000 feet above the surrounding land. 
These gentle hills provide an ideal gradient for upslope lift needed for the F1E gliders.
Five contestants participated with the following results:

Tom Ioerger*            100       100         100      97.92      100       87.50     100          685.42
Peter Brocks*           100       100        54.00     100       100       100        100          654.00
Bob Silfeet*               100      100         100        80.00     67.92   87.50     100          635.42       
Richard Wood          15.56    53.33      56.33     36.67    100       64.17      64.17      390.23
Jon Davis                100        DNF        DNF      DNF      DNF      DNF       DNF       100.00
*2009 Team Member
Contest was stopped after round 7 of Day 2 because of thunder storms and lightening.  Jon Davis experienced a fly-a-way
in round 1 and withdrew.
Elmer Nelson, CD


From: Don Zink

I, for one, believe the RCDT system has great value when test flying or for avoiding a crash or disaster  such as power lines.  My problem arises when a flyer uses it to gain a refly.  This is not fair to the other competitors.  Keep in mind that many flyers across the world still fly mechanical models.  This puts them at an even greater disadvantage.
I feel the 20 sec. rule should not be allowed for A1 flyers with an RCDT system.  A mistake should not be corrected by pusing a button.  In my opinion, using this system with the 20 sec. rule for anything other than avoiding a crash is un sportsman like conduct.  It has always been my belief that FAI is a wonderful fraternity.
I will never do anything that is unfair to my fraternity friends.  The rules have loop holes.  RCDT in the first 20 sec. is an important concern.
What this sport may need is a code of ethics.  Just think; all of us have gotten a refly when the timer didn't see the flight.  But, if you knew you didn't max and know your time - should you take it over?  The rules say yes.  But, is it really fair to the other competitors?
We have to have rules - but our respect for each other demands a higher level of fairness.  Some of the best flyers in the USA have the RCDT system and have used it to gain a chance at another flight.  I find this lack of concern for what is fair very depressing.
Don Zink

Radio DT
From Gene Ulm


I was kind of shocked at the level of comment on this along w the strident words. It strikes me that...

The rules are the rules; if its legal you can do it and its ethical. If its not, you can't and its not. If you don't like the rules, try to change them.

However, the playing field is generally very level, so if you don't win, maybe one should look elsewhere other than rules changes? And, please be mindful that the quest for more rules of a parsing nature will only have a detrimental effect on participation as the formula is tightened to rule out increasing numbers of people.

I also don't get the preoccupation with preventing "cheaters." Free societies and free associations (like the Free World and FAI Free Flight contests) rely almost completely on personal restraint to prevent law-breaking and cheating. Our law enforcement is designed to catch people AFTER a crime has been committed rather than PREVENT crimes from being committed. And free flight contests depends largely on the honor system that invites willing people to have some good competition and willingly use a given set of accepted rules. Emphasis on the WILLING.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of very smart people flying FAI free flight. If they wanted to cheat, I'm sure they could figure out a way to do it and they will always be one step ahead of the rules-makers.

And I suppose in this tight community, we would all very quickly know who they are. Further, given our nature to tribalize into smaller groups combined with the speed of communications would not be shocked to see the offending parties ostracized, etc.

I realize that all involved in FAI free flight are not from this more western culture but my guess is that the same dynamic will still be in effect. It just might take a little longer for offending parties to "get it." But they would eventually.

So, if you don't want to use rcdt, don't. If you do, do it. Burt have a good time competing either way because I'm not sure how RCDT would stop that.

End of soap box.

Gene Ulm



Because of travel, Finals prep and other stuff we are behind with SEN .. our applogies 


Roger Morrell