SEN-465 Sept. 5 2000
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News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 5 September 2000 issue 465
Table of Contents
=================
Any new technology is undistinguishable from Magic
Romanian Timekeeping - Dilly
Back from Canada Cup - Hines
Glide rudder timing for long flights - Ewing
Dynamics Part of Aerodynamics - Bogie
Not excelENT - Augustus
Backflip: Free Flight Search Engine update by This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
- Andressen and Soule
Ivan Kolic Web Site - Kolic
Parts and Info for F1E (magnetic steered slope gliders) - MAC the Bigot
Western FAI Challenge - Roberts
Cheap and Cheerful - Whitesides
fin volume - Montes
[pmac] Southwest Regionals, Eloy, AZ - Lidberg and Andressen
Micafilm NOT water resistant! - Hines
Any new technology is undistinguishable from Magic
==================================================
I was interested to read in the FFn comentary on the Euro Champs
some comments on Victor Stamov's F1A. Victor appeared to make a
bad launch in the 3rd round where upon the model bunted and
D/Td immediately. There was some immediated suspicion that
Victor might have used a Radio D/T to bring the model down. This
was partly because Victor was seen to slap his leg, presumably
activating the dastardly device.
Seeing I'm very much aquainted with part of the electronics used
in Victor's airplanes [well the timer part - Ken Bauer made
the Radio D/T that was not being used] I could be very tempted
to offer all kinds of explanations for what happened .. such
as it was not a radio tranmission but rather the sound of
Victor slapping his leg or that it was muttering in Russian
that did it, but I do not offer that even in jest as I'm aware
that some one will take it seriously.
Victor's timers will take input from an external device such as
as a Radio D/T, but in his configuration the reciever is plugged
into the outside of the pod. This is day-glo red box that very
visible just so anyone can see if it is on the model and avoid
this Count Dracula experince.
The real explanation is simply magic , Red Magic in fact. This is the
special version of the Black Magic timer that is made to suit Victor's
F1A and F1H airplanes. These timers have a "bunt timeout watchdog'
feature. This is a limit that the individual sportsman can set. It is the
time after the hook unlatches until the hook swings back. With an F1A
model when you go to launch, you are towing the model forward so the
hook is forward. Then you unlatch the hook and the line stays on the hook
until the model goes overhead and comes off as the hook swings back.
Normally this takes only a second or two.
Typically this delay is set to 5 to 10 seconds. This means that if the
model comes unlatched and the sportsman realizes it and can keep it on
the line for the period of that delay the timer can do an alternate action.
The Red [and Black] Magic timers have 10 steps, not all are needed for
a regular flight. So the 'extra' ones are used for dealing with
such actions as the bunt time out [or fly away time out]. So when
the time out is detected the timer will execute whatever step
the sportsman specifies. When I designed the timer, I guess that
most times the sportsman would d/t the model. And I thought that if
the sportsman was especially daring he would set this d/t different
for his first attempt and his second attempt. In these cases once the
timeout is dected the timer just executes one more step. However Victor
was more creative. He figured that d/ting the model at the top
of the line was a bit risky maybe damaging the model or exceeding 20 seconds.
So to be sure to set the model down safely on a bunt failure it jumps
to a 2 step timer sequence this bunts the model down and then d/ts it
just before it hits the ground.
This process appeared to be magic in Roumania, may be something to
do with Count Dracula ?
If you look at the number of steps for a 'normal' operation it is
pitch up, balistic cruise, bunt, fast glide and slow glide. That
is 5 steps, plus the two used on bunt time out makes a total of 7
out of the 10 provided by the timer.
One thing that is important with this technique is that on the second
attempt you must change what it will do if you have another bunt time
out. This time you do not want it to bring the model down but rather put
it a normal glide position with a normal D/t. So in the normal sequence above
you would take it to the fast glide step. ... Does Victor remember to do that
on very second attempt ? .. well you will know if he forgets !!
Romanian Timekeeping
====================
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I have every sympathy with Tapio Linkosalo regarding the timekeeping
inconsistencies at Buzau during the European Championships. There are
several more horrors that he may not have been aware of.
One of our F1C flyers, John Cuthbert, had a launch that he'd probably
prefer to forget that resulted in the model being down for around 42
seconds, I think; anyway, it was on the ground about 300 yards from the
line; the timekeepers gave him 28 seconds! The Peter Watson flight he
mentions, also with the same timekeepers on Round 1, D/T'd at about 4:20. I
protested both these, but the timekeepers said to the jury that they were
absolutely sure they had timed the correct models, so that was $30 down the
drain. On other rounds we saw timekeepers looking 45 degrees apart from
each other, timing with one guy looking at the watch, the other one staring
through the binoculars till his mate said "Max", at which stage he stopped
timing, and several wild flailings about while people attempted to locate
'their' model. Not quite what CIAM had in mind when it refers to
independent timing of flights by each of the pair, I think.
The problem seems to me to be that some countries may simply not have
sufficient experienced timekeepers. 'Experienced' means having some
background of free-flight timing, as well as some awareness of what the
task involves; my impression was that some of these guys thought that the
purpose of having two watches was in case one stopped. Additionally, in
particular with some still air fly-off trims which have models flying
circles of 90 seconds or more, some liberal interpretation of the letter of
the rule is required, together with a bit of common sense. The model is
going to be substantially head- or tail-on for a good deal longer than ten
seconds at a time, so it does require some instinct for where it will be
visible next, but most sensible timekeepers realise seem to manage.
The matter of tripods also worries me. Of course some sort of stabiliser
helps when tracking a model with a fairly narrow angle lens (I write as
someone with 35 years experience as a TV cameraman, heaven help me!), but
simply giving a tripod or, as we have seen in the past, a wooden
contraption on which to rest the binoculars, to someone who cannot use it
effectively may not be the whole answer. It has been suggested that it
should be mandatory for each team to provide a timekeeper; those of us who
were at the World Air Games at Ankara or at the European Championships in
1998 in Portugal may regard that idea as a bit of a mixed blessing. I don't
think we'd want some of that lot! It will, of course, put up the price of
the entry, as each of these 'imported' timekeepers must be paid for in
terms of fares and accommodation. This already happens in events such as
R/C aerobatics, where I believe about fifteen judges must be costed into
each event's budget. In our own sport timekeepers are at least as vital.
In case the Romanians think they are being singled out for criticism, this
is not the intention; I have no simple solution (nor do I have one to the
question of how we time motor runs) but we need to give the matter some
serious thought, and, more importantly, come up with some recommendations
and brief our CIAM delegates in good time for the Plenary next March.
Thermals.
Martin Dilly
Back from Canada Cup
====================
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Hello SENners,
Just back from Camp Borden, Ontario, Canada, the site of the 1st Canada Cup.
We had a good time, but not successful with any awards for the three of us
(Chuck Markos, Pierre and I).
Leslie Farkas sent results in Excell which I can't open. He said he would copy
you, so assume you are covered. Report was being sent as well, I recall.
The field was fairly large with trees all round and knobby uneven ground.
Running hard was fraught with possible trouble in many places and chasing
was doable by seeing the model down and going on the line,by foot or motor
bike. Many types of plants were observed growing from the sandy soil,
including poison ivy and milkweed, but we managed to stay unaffected.
We each had our share of flight glitches and hope to have learned how to
prevent same in future!
On another note, will you be reformatting the AMERICAS CUP update in
plain text soon so all can read it, too?
Also the CAN CUP results?
That would be appreciated, I'm sure.
Ciao, Lee
[
Lee - I have not got the results yet.
Some people have succeeded in reading the AM Cup results. They are very
difficult to format. If there is some excel wizzard who has a process to
convert them to a format similar to that used by Ian Kaynes for
the World Cup results and can send it to me I will use it ... otherwise
wait til I have made my motors for the Finals !]
Glide rudder timing for long flights
====================================
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I would like to recount some difficulty that I recently had and ask a question:
I was frustrated to stall to the ground in the first 5 minute round at our rece
nt Western F.A.I. challenge contest. I had just completed a low power test fli
ght on 60 winder cranks to verify that the model would not stall and had the gl
ide circle that I wanted. In the test flight, the model had a very slight pitc
h oscillation just after the prop fold that damped out after about 2 cycles and
then glided smoothly to the ground. In the official flight, the model slowed
and pitched nose down sharply at the prop fold, and continued in a series of de
ep stalls that did not damp out. When reviewing my process I noted that the ti
ming of the rudder change was different between flights, with the glide setting
occurring much sooner before prop fold in the test flight. On a full length m
otor run, I try to change to the glide rudder about 5 seconds before the prop f
old. This timing had been working the previous day with the model adjusted fo
r a faster glide.
Do any of you experienced fly off competitors change the timing to have the rud
der change from the climb position to the glide position sooner when the model
is adjusted for slowest glide?
Rick Ewing
[My applogies to Rick - as I prepared this I could see that for many recipient
it was going to appear badly. As the lines were broken at 80 characters
with no account taken of word spacing etc. ... If you have control of your
mail set it have 75 chracater per line. If not prepare it in 12 pt courier
i.e. a fixed pitch font.
Again I might have formatted it if I had my motors made ...]
Dynamics Part of Aerodynamics
=============================
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Looking through Frank Zaic's 1953 Year book for old glider designs was a real
treat into the early part of F1A. Max Hacklinger on page 79 had a design
that outclassed the other offerings.
However, Hank Cole wrote a piece on the dynamics part of aerodynamics
relative to Dutch Roll and Spiral tendencies and how to avoid them. The work
is still valid and is a good read, at least once every 50 years. There is a
hint about designing for centering in thermals.
Bill Bogart
Re: SCAT Electronic News 1 Sept 2000 issue 464 - AmCup results excel
====================================================================
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Roger,
The last few times an Excel file has been attached to the SEN, and I
have tried to open it, it has caused a system crash. Have others
complained about this, or could it be a problem in my system?
BA
[Bruce - this one was as Jim Parker gave it to me. It is excel 97 ?
I think - if yours is earlier you might have trouble.
I know that some other people have sucessfully read it - but would be
interested if other people had trouble. I would need to know
what version of excel and if you had read excel fiules from other
sources.]
Fwd: Backflip: Free Flight Search Engine (update by This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
=======================================================================
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Interesting stuff from Pete Soule, known to many SCATers, especially those
who stray to Whittier Narrows.
Enjoy,
H
>From: Greg Lane
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: Backflip: Free Flight Search Engine (update by This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
>Date: Tue Sep 5 03:02:10 2000
>
>This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. added this page to Greg Lane's Free Flight Search Engine
>folder
>
>Page title: Free Flight and Nostalgia Topics
>Description: For model Airplane Builders, Dreamers, and Fliers.
>Chosen from a small an unplanned collection of photos and publications made
>over the years, just a few pictures to amuse or please.
>
>Click here to check out the Free Flight Search Engine folder:
>http://www.backflip.com/sh/HZZRXXfHSDefEZTWRYWFJGRTEHfQgggg
>
>Enjoy!
>This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Like This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., use Backflip to get back to what's important to
>you on the Web. For FREE
>
>If you do not want to receive email about this folder, please
>click the URL above. On the next page that appears, uncheck
>"Send email updates as this folder changes."
>
>
>http://www.backflip.com/
>Get Back to the Good Stuff!
Ivan Kolic Web Site
===================
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Dear friends,
I am happy to invite You to visit my new web presentation at the
address:
www.solair.eunet.yu/~kolic
It will be on-line since september the 6th.
Your friend, Ivan Kolic
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Parts and Info for F1E (magnetic steered slope gliders)
=======================================================
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Parts and Info for F1E (magnetic steered slope gliders)
Can anyone out there steer me in the direction of where I can get parts and
information on the FAI class of F1E? The steering mechanism would be nice to
find, I'll build the rest. I read a recent CIAM bulletin article on the
event and it sounds like a lot of fun and very challenging. Looked on the
SCAT archives but didn't find much other than the basic FAI rules & specs.
Any help, comments, experiences, etc. will be greatly appreciated!
Jon Davis
[Jon, I know that baggy rapper pants are not the F1E style, try
lederhosen. Was an article by Trevor Faulkner in and English magazine
[Aeromodeller - probably a few years back]]
Western FAI Challenge
=====================
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Roger
The following are the results of the 2000 Western FAI Challenge at Harts
Lake Prarie, WA.. The weather turned out to be exceptional with mostly
sunshine and minimal drift in variable directions. The forecast was for
mostly rain, showers and thundershowers, however the forecast in the
Northwest is rarely correct and all that came and flew had a terrific two
days and 14 rounds. The big battle was in F1 B as usual with a very even
first day with everyone dropping a round or two. At the end of day two Dick
Wood who traveled from Phoenix, took home most of the cash winning F1 B,
high time for the meet and 2nd in F1 G. Entry was small but flying was
spectacular, particularly the two five minute rounds at 7am on Sunday that
had Mt. Rainier back-lit by a beautiful sunrise.
F1 A Rob Lane 1527 sec
F1 B Dick Wood 2642 sec
Ralph Cooney 2479 sec
Rick Ewing 2466 sec
Lee Schroeder 1673 sec
Dan Tracy 1245 sec
F1 C Ron Mc Burnett 2505 sec
Mike Roberts 2114 sec
F1 G John Kamla 600 sec
Dick Wood 594 sec
Frank Pollard 455 sec
F1 J Mike Roberts 600 sec
Bob Stalick 367 sec
Final note; the trees and drift spooked Dick Wood a little, but he wound the
timer and went for it and won with out loosing any airplanes.
Mike Roberts CD
Cheap and Cheerful
==================
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There are mentions in the CL fraternity of a new Chinese entry in the
.049/.061 engine market - GZ. It is a follow-on to the CS which is
supposedly no more. Who has firm information on these engines? Who is
importing/distributing the engines? Have they overcome the quality problems
that plagued CS?
Best Regards,
Robert Whitesides
fin volume
==========
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Roger,
As I have had several requests, I include a .jpg version of the graph
that accompanied my note on fin volume. The Excel file that I sent with
the note apparently could not be transmitted. Could you please include
it in a future SEN, which has become the most important medium of
interchange of ideas on contest FF.
Thanks
Sergio
[This will be sent in a separate e-mail. I do not remember if I
included the .xls but will do so too]
[pmac] Southwest Regionals, Eloy, AZ
====================================
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Roger,
Just following Al's orders and forewarding this for publication in SEN.
Is chance for all to get a leg up in the first America's Cup of 2001 an
aeromodeler oddessy.
H
>From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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>Subject: [pmac] Southwest Regionals, Eloy, AZ
>Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:01:25 EDT
>
>Yes, it's really kind of early to talk about a contest in January of 2001,
>but I've already had 2 emails asking about the date - so, here goes:
>
>51st Annual
>Southwest Regionals Model Airplane Championships
>13, 14 & 15 January 2001
>Eloy, Arizona [half way between Phoenix & Tucson] - where the January
>weather
>is generally pretty nice!
>3 contests + MECA [Model Engine Collector's Association] Collecto
>[swap/sell/etc engines/kits]
>-AMA/NFFA/SAM/FAC Free Flight; NFFS National Cup contest
>-FAI Free Flight; America's Cup + FAI Qualifying Contest
>-SAM RC Old Timers
>
>Get lots of info at:
>http://members.aol.com/allff
>where you can check out results of recent SWRs, including our adventures
>with
>ROW [Rise Off Water - from our portable desert pond!] that resulted in a
>new
>national AMA ROW Mulvihill record in year 2000, as well as the specifics
>about 2001 !
>AL - A. A. Lidberg; SWR Modelers Assoc. pres & AMA etc contest director
>BTW: pls pass this along to anyone who might be interested; Herman A -
>please
>pass to SCAT; SWRMA committee folks - pls check out all the links [only
>real
>change for 2001 is the split of BC Nostalgia into separate events so we'll
>have 2 more valid National Cup events]
Micafilm NOT water resistant!
=============================
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Roger,
I want to report that in the Sunday downpour(yes, it rained in Canada,
not to our surprise)clear Micafilm covered planes showed a lot of
wetness
had penetrated thru where it contacted D-box and ribs.
Polyspan wings seemed better at resisting the rain in general.
Ansgar had an Icarex covered glider(VERY BRIGHT COLORS!), but the
verdict is out as to its ability to keep water out since he luckily had
it in
his vehicle at the time.
Could it be that this recent batch of Micafilm has a key ingredient
missing?
Or would it always absorb, if exposed to a downpour?
Responses entertained and welcomed.
Ciao,
Lee
......................
Roger Morrell
