SEN 1197 - 25 March 2008

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Table of Contents - SEN 1197

USA Jnr Free Flight Team Donation
F1Q Thoughts
ED'S 1196 Comments
Stepan in the USA
RDT and the 20 sec rule

Jr Free Flight Team Fund Donation

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger,

On 23 April CST will have a fund raising day for the Jr FAI FF Team.

The details of the team donation are on our web site (www.cstsales.com)

In general we are going to donate 20% of our retail sales that day to the team.

Thanks

Matt Gewain

F1Q Thoughts
From: Pim Ruyter

I am now for 2 years experimenting with F1Q with mixed results. I agree with Klaus Salzer that it is easy to under estimate the power of a F1Q model. The alternative is to use a small electric motor in a big model but that is no fun.

As far as my experience go; I flew my first model based on a F1J adjusted as a F1B with as a result an instant crash and a crash does not mean an F1B crash but a F1C like crash. Up to now I have totalled 3 models and at this moment I am assembling one model from the left overs.

After my first crash I discussed with my friend what to do and we agreed to replace the timer by a RC receiver (this was easy as I used a 3 servo timer), my friend took control and he found that the model was very hard to get it into a stable (F1C like) power pattern, during the whole motor run the model had to be corrected.

The problem is that the electric motor reduces power during the motor run. The voltage of the battery gets lower due to the high current consumption, subsequently the power (Watts), this will result in an erratic power pattern. There are two solutions to this:

1- Use the 1970 F1C power pattern, a right turn with the nose up (read Franc Zaic Circular Airflow).

2- Using an electronic timer with 3 servo output with a so called Step function (during a set time move the servo from the initial position to an end position). I use a Black Magic timer who has this function. The advantage of the Step function is that you can correct gradually the rudder and stab. during the motor run for loss of power.

A agree also that F1Q is not becoming popular as fast as we had liked, also here are several reasons, you may assume that power flyers will be motivated to fly F1Q but this assumption is not correct, as a Mather of fact most F1Q flyers are F1B flyers.

Here we can see various reasons:

1- The learning curve, new F1Q flyers like to have their F1Q fly like the state of the art in model airplane flying. Today a model has to climb as a F1B/C/J and glide as a F1A. This will take a lot of time and commitment especially if you have to start from scratch and if you have not reached that level of performance you don't show at a World Cup Contest.

2- Electronics knowledge, particular in F1C we see almost no electronics and one of the reason is lack of knowledge. My experience with F1C flyers is that they do not like the electronics, involved in F1Q they call everything with wires electronics including the Palm used for programming my timer.

3- In general Model Airplane Flyers (on average) are getting old and they do not like to start a new adventure.

4- No availability of RTF models for F1Q, if you start a new FF class, the best is to buy a RTF model. At this moment there are only a limited number of F1Q (would be) flyers and they all have a background in building models and knowledge of electric or electronics. I wonder whether there are F1Q flyers in former Eastern Europe who will offer RTF F1Q models for sale.

5- Lack of World Cup contests, contest directors copy last year entry form change the date and forget to add F1Q. When you speak to them they admit that they have forgotten! Maybe next year.

6- Last but not least the reason brought forward by Klaus Salser is a self fulfilled prophesy. If you start a discussion of changing rules for F1Q even before the first World Cup contest was held than you can expect that would be F1Q flyers who had a thought about flying F1Q will wait until rules are written in Blood.

I can not avoid the discussion of rules and performance as I do not agree with the early discussions about F1Q rules. I support the idea of maintaining the ruling as it is now (including battery weight) so that today's would be starters in F1Q do not invest in material what maybe will become obsolete, the same applies to F1Q flyers who have already invested. The rules as they exist today give plenty of opportunity for Contest Directors to come to a timely result by reducing the motor run during a contest. At this moment there is no need to change the rules as they are now, the F1Q contest attendance is minimal and so far no fly-off was needed in any contest.

What we may do in due time when rule adjustments are needed, is limiting the weight of the Electric motor without touching the rest of the rules. What I mean is to make the minimum model weight 10 X the weight of the motor for a Brushless motor and 8 X the weight of the motor for a brushed motor. So if you have invested in equipment you may only have to add some weight to your model.

Facts: Do you know that there are about 4000 different electric motors on the market for RC which can be used for F1Q and 400 motor controllers. You can imagine that some kind of guidance is needed for would be F1Q flyers. I hope to get enough experience this flying season to offer my experience to the FF Community.

Pim Ruyter
E-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Netherlands

Ed's 1196 Comments ...

I'm with you Hermie. And yes Klaus I am waiting too. Ed Mate

ED MATE
14510 EDBROOKE
RIVERDALE, IL 60827

P.S. I am for the 20 sec delayed flight. At times because of my physical limitations when I declare a delayed flight as official 20 sec looks better than 5. Ed Mate

ED MATE
14510 EDBROOKE
RIVERDALE, IL 60827

Stepan in the USA

I have recently taken over the Stefanchuk product line from George Batiuk and I’m now the U.S. sales representative for him. Stepan was the 2003 F1B World Champion in 2003. I’m excited to be able to work with Stepan and sell his product line. I have a supply of F1B and F1G models and parts; F1B and F1G half tubes for winding; stooges and props.

To view his web page: http://www.stsukr.boom.ru

To inquire about part availability or to order please contact me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or call me at 408 829-5477. U.S. prices and catalogs available upon request.

Marty Schroedter

RDT and the 20 sec rule

From:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

If necessary, clarify the RDT rule to re-affirm the intention that it should not be used to gain an advantage during the contest flight.

Leave the 20 second rule alone; we have tried it before and it was a miserable experience, which is why it was revoked.

Peter Tribe

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Roger Morrell