SEN 669 - 24 Jan 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 24 January 2002 Issue 669
Table of Contnets
=================
Request from NZ - Dilly and Buckley
Peggy - Vincent
Hot Pink Line Deal (close call) - Limberger
SWR 2002 Results - Nystedt
SWR 2002 - Coussens
F1C Props - The Alien and Cooney
Looking for an Internship - Mattern
F1C Rules - Buskell
If you got it and i cant get it lets cry. - Stiles
Fw: Museum - Simpson et al
Boutillier's reply - Cuthbert
Cost of F1 - Wegener
2002 SWR - Menanno
Request from NZ
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
The following came from CIAM this evening; maybe you could air it=
on SEN. Ken's e-mail address is:
Best regards,
Martin Dilly
Hi from Downunder,
Can you please assist with postal or e-mail addresses for the following
people ?
From Russia, the following:
(a.) Khrebtov Andrey, competing in F1B,
(b.) Chelepov Aleksandr, competing in F1B
(c.) Tsoi Evgeni, competing in F1A
(d.) Rekhin Nicolai, competing in F1C
(e.) Ignatjev Vadim, competing in F1B
(f.) Chelepova Valentina, supporter
Regards
Ken Buckley
NZMAA Secretary
Peggy
=====
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
A little time back in discussion on Valley Fever I quoted the famous lyrics fro
m
Fever, as sung by Peggy Lee.
Sad to hear today that Peggy has just died at 81 from a heart attack. She may h
ave
died but her voice will live forever.
Just to carry on the Jazz theme a model called Ole Man Mose was designed by And
y
Crisp in the mid 80's, I think the tune was by Louis Armstrong but Andy will no
doubt
correct me.
One built by Chris Murphy about then and recently bought by Kevin Barnes who re
-engined
it with an old 1/A combat CTAH motor, at Christmas won both open and Kiwi power
at
the New Zealand Nationals.
Ole Man Mose sure ain't dead yet
Lincoln
Hot Pink Line Deal (close call)
==============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi!
We are about to close the hot pink line deal i was calling out some days
ago. many people ordered and made this effort a success. thank you all!
to ensure, our list is setup correctly, everyone of the people who
ordered should have received a e-mail within the last hrs or so. if you
ordered line, or wish to order, and did not receive a personal e-mail in
the last hrs or so, please contact me (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.) dircetly to
clear things up.
thermals,
Rene Limberger
ABAS Sytems
SWR 2002 Results
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
For SEN
Thanks! - John _
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- -------------
F1A
Van Nest, Brian 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 2,010
Coussens, Tom 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 378 1,968
Parker, Jim 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 320 1,910
Parkr, Dallas (SR) 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 150 1,740
Diez, Hector 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 224 1,514
Markos, Chuck 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 215 1,505
Hines, Lee 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 190 1,480
Bruan, Pierre 178 180 180 180 180 180 180 1,258
Cowley, Martyn 210 180 180 118 180 110 180 1,158
Limberger, Rene 210 2 180 180 180 180 165 1,097
Smith, Norm 42 180 180 180 126 180 180 1,068
Zink, Don 81 180 180 180 180 180 77 1,058
Brocks, Peter 66 135 176 180 180 71 113 921
Coussens, Ben (SR) 210 165 0 0 180 180 180 915
Bushelli, Ernesto 210 180 105 0 0 0 0 495
Peterson, Alan 188 88 62 0 0 0 0 338
F1B
Batiuk, George 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 385 1,975
Crowley, Paul 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 347 1,937
Sessums, John 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 326 1,916
Piserchio, Bob 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 311 1,901
Rohrke, Rich 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 286 1,876
Pratt, John 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 281 1,871
Clapp, John 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 282 1,572
Dorsett, Chuck 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 246 1,536
Tymchek, Bob 210 180 180 180 159 180 180 1,269
Wood, Richard 199 180 180 154 180 180 180 1,253
Ulm, Allan 196 176 151 180 180 180 180 1,243
Maves, Roger 210 180 180 137 173 180 180 1,240
Nelson, Elmer 210 180 180 148 135 180 180 1,213
O'Reilly, Jim 181 180 180 180 21 180 180 1,102
Norvall, Larry 210 180 180 180 180 142 0 1,072
F1C
Poti, Norman 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 2,040
Warren, John 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 400 2,020
Archer, Randy 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 380 2,000
Keck, Ed 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 371 1,991
Joyce, Doug 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 266 1,886
Menanno, Guy 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 280 1,600
Perkins, Daryl 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 270 1,590
Happersett, Ken 240 180 180 178 180 180 180 1,318
Carroll, Ed 122 180 180 180 180 180 180 1,202
Kerger, Terry 240 180 180 180 180 137 0 1,097
Oliver, Ken 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
F1G
Wood, Richard 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 256 1,576
Crowley, Paul 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 186 1,506
Brocks, Peter 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 195 1,215
White, Bob 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 161 1,181
O'Reilly, Jim 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 1,020
Pratt, John 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 1,020
Peterson, Alan 120 120 120 120 120 108 708
Emery, Jack 120 120 120 120 120 91 691
Klintworth, Paul 120 120 120 120 120 63 663
Tymchek, Bob 120 120 120 112 120 592
Griggs, Chad 120 105 120 120 120 585
Roberge, Frank 120 120 120 81 120 561
Clapp, John 120 83 120 90 120 533
Norvall, Larry 120 120 120 116 0 476
Murphy, Jerry 114 95 120 120 0 449
Bartick, Don 120 90 120 77 0 407
Gannon, William 120 47 120 71 0 358
Nelson, Elmer 64 120 0 0 0 184
Maves, Roger 81 0 0 0 0 81
F1H
Van Nest, Brian 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 360 2,100
Crowley, Martyn 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 360 1,852
Busnelli, Ernesto 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 360 1,817
Parker, Dallas (SR 120 120 120 120 120 180 114 894
Smith, Norm 120 120 120 120 117 597
Archer, Ryan (JR) 120 120 120 85 120 565
Hines, Lee 120 120 94 0 0 334
Markos, Chuck 120 0 0 0 0 120
F1J
Menanno, Guy 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 304 1,624
Keck, Ed 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 286 1,606
Carroll, Ed 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 300 178 1,498
Poti, Norman 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 233 1,253
Menanno, Frank 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 145 1,165
Robertson, Tony 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 143 1,163
Warren, John 120 120 120 120 120 179 779
SWR 2002
========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello fellow Free Flight Flyers, I would just like to give you guys a brief
summery as to what went on at the SWR. First of all I would just like to
thank John Nystedt For running another great contest. Saturday Started out
just as beautiful as could be amagined, with a slight breeze that carried
on throughout the day, and picked up a little bit towards the beginning of
the flyoffs, but was still very flyable. Im sorry for those who could not
participate in a excellent start of another free flight season. The field was
great and the conditions were excellent, altogether im sure you can ask
anyone who flew at the contest
if they enjoyed themselves and everyone would doubtlessly say yes. Although I
could not fly the entire contest, i had an absolute ball and i am looking
forward to next year already, hopefully more of you can join us next time.
Fly Max Win,
Ben Coussens
F1C Props
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: BOB GUTAI
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Date: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:32 AM
>Subject: Re: Props
>
>
>Ralph,
> What a novel solution to a problem that has befuddled all the
>"Experts?".
> I agree that Michael needs constant attention. From past experience
>though, I would recommend at least two, and maybe as many as six times a
>day.
> Thank you for your prompt reply as my poor gear model is in need of a
>great prop.
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ralph Cooney
> To: BOB GUTAI
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Props
>
>
> Bob,
> We make a full line of props in all sizes. The vibration problem has
>been solved by carefully carving them in obchi wood.
> The delivery, however is another matter. As we have entered into an
>exclusive distribution agreement with Fourmost Products, all inquiries must
>be directed to him. It would be well to keep on him at least daily.
>
> Ralph
>
> BOB GUTAI wrote:
>
> Ralph, I understand through the grapevine that you have come out
>with a great line of props for the geared engines. Have you been able to
>get rid of the vibration problems normally associated with them? What
>sizes do you have, and at what price? Also, what sort of delivery time, can
>I expect? I am sort of gun. Sifleet, by the way, has warned me to watch
>out for manufacturing defects in these puppies. Bob
Looking for an Internship
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello Modelers & Engineers!
I'm a beginner F1A & F1B flyer and a senior in mechanical engineering
looking for a fun and interesting summer internship for the 2002. My
step-dad, Jon Davis, recommended I post this ad asking if any of you know of
any interesting summer programs doing mechanical engineering. There are
several criteria I'm leaning toward however not decided upon for this
internship:
1. Located on the East Coast
2. A student program, so I can meet others doing the same thing
3. Interesting work in ME; for instance robotics, bio-mechanical
engineering, aeronautics
Again, I'm very flexible at this point. I've met a bunch of you and know
that many are engineers yourselves. Please feel free to give any suggestions
or comments at all...I'm all ears!
I've just completed a personal resume web site that may help you learn a bit
more about my interestes: www.stevenmattern.com. My email address is:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. All emails welcome!
Many thanks for your suggestions! I'll probably see some of you at the Max
Men in February!
Sincerely,
Steven Mattern
F1C Rules
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Friends,
For a number of reasons I haven't been able to follow very closely the
discussions in S.E.N about F1C, geared engines, rule adjustments etc.
Now, I don't want to quote other people inaccurately, or out of context,
so I will confine my comments to personal perspective.
I am an ex-F1C flier; I flew for 15 years or so, achieving no notable
success, and hung up my Rossi's 8 years ago. I doubt very much if I
shall make a return any time soon.
The are a variety of reasons behind this sorry status; cost is one - I
have been an Aerospace Engineer for almost 20 years, and the cost of
competitive F1C equipment is very definitely a concern. Fields and noise
restrictions are also pertinent issues for me, but the killer as far as
I'm concerned is that F1C is boring. With current rules all you can do
is make your model climb vertically upwards as fast as possible using a
run that is as close to an over-run as one can get using the absolute
maximum output available and with the noise that goes with it (sorry to
bring that up again). There is no other valid approach, and there will
be no other with current thinking, unless, of course, we get down to a
zero engine run.
I have played around with a rule change idea that I thought might spark
some constructive comment.
What if we were to divorce the specification of the airframe from those
specs. that define the engine? That is, to define an airframe that is
independent of the engine - minimum weight (750 gms) with minimum and
maximum area limits in line with current aircraft. Then we consider the
engine; We'll start with a 2.5cc limit - this together with the airframe
definition means that current models are not instantly thrown into
obselesence. Now, power is the rate of doing work, so instead of
defining the maximum power, and the maximum engine run, we will consider
the work that the engine does (which is to give altitude). Using an
assumed specific output of 400 bhp per litre of engine size, equating to
an output of 1 bhp for 2.5cc (.15 cu in) we can define the work that it
does from climb height measurements - I made the assumption that a good
model gets 500 feet in 5 secs. (is that realistic?). If someone then
wanted to use a smaller engine, and there are a number of good 2.0cc
(.12), 1.0cc (.061) engines, and even 0.8cc (0.049), then a longer run
would be allowed.
I gathered up some output numbers for various (good) engines, plotted
them on a graph, and came up with the following:
2.5cc 5 secs run
2.0cc 7 secs
1.0cc 15 secs (much slower, much easier to time - airframe may not
need lots of carbon)
0.8cc 24 secs (even slower still, may cause boredom in timekeepers -
might even be able to use wood)
Any takers?
I have been around F1C models long enough to remember the 15 sec run,
and I have seen people struggle to develop that one great idea. My Dad
built a pair of crankcase supercharged engines, one of which he got
going well enough to take him to the fringe of the British team in the
early 60's. I saw Mike Gasters geared engine from 1964, and I've seen
feathering props, wing wigglers, camber changing devices etc etc. I have
great reservations about banning innovation in a premier event. It
happened with the pipe ban, which caused follow-on problems that we
could very well do without.
Having said that, successive reductions in engine run have effectively
banned variety (hats off to Doug Joyce, though).
best regards
John Buskell
If you got it and i cant get it lets cry.
=========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Lets face it money dosent even facter in to somthing we all love as much
as freeflight. If it did none of would be flying all over the world like we
do to compete. If you dont like it you can always grow flowers. Charlie
Stiles
Fw: Museum
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
From: Tassilo Schwend
Claus Gretter, F1C (from Frankfurt) could not get any answer
from following institution: The Engine Collector:s Journal, The Model
Museum, 1265 Yates St. Denver, Colorado 8o2o4-1o27. He would like to
ask you, if you know a modeler living in Denver or nearby. In
Claus`name, thanks in advance.
Tassilo This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
If anyone can assist Claus Gretter, please email Tassilo Schwend with
the information
Roger Simpson
Boutillier's reply
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
To reply to your question Bernard,
It is clear at the moment that you can win with either a straight
drive model or a geared one. Such welcome vareity from the days when
only a straight drive model could win.
Indeed, Archer and Verbitsky did well at the Canada Cup,but
when it came to the "bigee" their geared models did not cut the mustard.
I bet they wished they had used their straight drive models. A different
result would surely have resulted. But as we say in England,"ya pays ya
money and takes ya choice.
Keep smiling Bernard, Regards, John
Cost of F1
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger;
I have been reading the posts about the costs of F1 events, F1C
specifically.
As you may remember, I had a brief foray into the world of F1B. I was
never successful in that endeavor, however, but I must say that the main
reason that I have not continued with F1B is cost.
In the last couple of years I have rekindled another passion of mine
from childhood, and that is bicycling riding. I would like to make some
comparisons between F1B and cycling. I have also started to train for
triathlons.
First, this year my old bike is dying, so I have been shopping for a new
bike. I knew that I was going to ride this bike both as a serious road
bike and a triathlon bike. I also know that in all likelihood, this will
be my last bike. I decided on a very high-performance titanium racing
bike. This bike, ready to race costs about $2300.00. Yes, there are
other items to buy, like shoes, helmet, etc. But even so, one could be
ready to race for well under $3,000.00. Compare this cost with a top of
the line F1B. A ready to fly Andriukov (Comparable to my new Ti bike) is
$1385.00. Multiply that by two, as you would not want to go to a contest
with only one airplane, and you have $2770.00. Now, remember, you are
starting from scratch, here, so you are going to need a chase bike, say
$750.00, you also are going to need rubber, and support equipment, add
maybe another $500.00 for all that. I don't believe that the F1B comes
with a radio tracker, so add another $750.00 (I'm guessing on this one)
for both the TX and Rx. So, let's see, we are now up to $4770.00. For
this much money, you can buy the same exact bike that Lance Armstrong
won the Tour de France on!
I know what some of you are going to say, that no one is going to start
from scratch and fly F1B. But that is exactly my point! All of the
arguments that I have read about cost are "preaching to the choir". You
all are saying things like "We are going to lose flyers" or "no one is
going to stop flying" but, how many people, when looking for a new
challenge will look at F1B and plunk down nearly $5,000.00? How many
"new" F1B or F1C flyers have you seen at a contest? And by new, I am
saying someone who has never flown model airplanes before?
There is a "sprint" triathlon series near where I live every Tuesday
evening from early June through September. An average of 60 (yes, 60!)
people show up for these each Tuesday evening, many of them "first
timers". At my first one last year there were at least 15 newbies. And
you know what? Even though I came in dead last, I was treated like I had
just won the olympics. Everyone was cheering me on as I past the finish
line. They made me feel like I belonged there, and many people came up
to me to make sure I was not discouraged and I would be back.
And I have learned something else: the people that do Triathlons, or
Marathons, or other events like these do them because they are
difficult. The holy grail for triathletes is the Ironman. 2 1/2 mile
swim, 110 miles on the bike and a full (26 miles) marathon in the same
day. Nothing in the "sport" of model airplanes comes even close to this.
Just my two cents.
Rich Wegener
2002 SWR
========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Thank You, John Nystedt, Hermann Andresen, Elmer Nelson, for putting on
another great South West Regional, FAI event. Good field, good weather,
good friends.
Thanks again,
Frank Menanno, Magnificent Mountain men
.............
Roger Morrell
