SEN 695 - 25 Apr 2002

  • Print

SCAT Electronic News 25 April 2002 issue 695

Table of Contents

CIAM Puppies
Wright Stuff State Competion Results - Baxter et al
Nor Cal FF Champs---Last Call - Terzian
Televising Model Plane Meets - Klintworth
2002 AmCup Update - Parker & Coussens
Priest Comment
Wright Stuff - Lang
NFFS - Tracy
" how do you help?" - Clemens
Second Model - Ross

CIAM Puppies

We have recieved some more information on the CIAM saga and some
associated issues. We discussed
this at great length at a recent SCAT meeting and are intending to publish
something about it. For this reason we are holding back a couple of articles
for a future issue. We can probably do with a puppie break ... and I do not
have time to get it all together. We had to get this issue out tonight
as it contained 1> Fred Terzian's NorCal reminder and 2> Jim Parker's
words of wisdon of America's Cup comportment . The latter being particularily
important because in move potentailly to confuse Dick Wood 3 America's
Cup event organizers have cut their noses off to spite their faces by holding
3 events on the same weekend.

On a serious note it appears that the Puppie episode and some other
politicing to do with the CIAM meeting has had the effect of seriously
demotivating some people who are major contributors [both as
organizeres and sportsmen ] to Free Flight ..
While I must confess to be guilty of indulging in sport politik
my self, it is very important to always try and look at the big
picture. This includes some of the people that make Fre Flight happen.
.. that was my bit of Politicking to get you to look forward to the
next issue !!!

Wright Stuff State Competion Results
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Apologize for taking so long to get this to you, but have been very busy of
We had 24 teams compete in the B division and 24 in the C division.
All in all a good showing but we still see a wide disparity in times.

B division we had only 4 teams over the two min. mark, 7 over 1 min.,
5 between 30 sec. and 1 min., and 8 below 30 sec.
The top six finishers were:
Joe Walker 2:55.4
Santiago 2:36.4
Wilson 2:27
El Rancho 2:03
Marshall 1:59.6
Utt 1:52.4

C division had one time over 3 min., 3 over 2 min., 4 over 1 min.,4 between
31 sec. and 58 sec., 8 between 2.3 sec. and 20.4, and 4 who attempted
but never cleared the floor.
The top six finishers were:
University City 3:08.5
Troy 2:40.4
Torrey Pines 2:36
Dana Hills 2:10.4
Mt Carmel 1:50.7
Arcadia 1:46.7

I don't know how this matches up with last years times, but I see an
improvement over the first couple of years.
We had some really good flights during the course of the event, and the
good thing is the kids did it by themselves. If any coaching went on during
the event I did not see it. The volunteers were all great, just wish I could
have spent more time talking airplanes, but as you know that many flights
in a short period of time gets a bit hectic.

Take care, and thanks for helping line up all the guys.
Will see you soon.
Good Flying


Nor Cal FF Champs---Last Call
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Just a reminder to most of the "local" readers of SEN that this weekend is
the Nor Cal Free Flight Champs.
Qualifies for America's Cup Points, FAI Team Selection, National Cup Points,
and of course prestige that they survived Waegell Field, again!

The Sierra Champs contest several weekends ago experienced wonderful
weather, ever improving as it became later in the afternoon. The flying pad
was covered with yellow and purple wildflowers and everyone had a great

The Oakland Cloud Dusters will be hosting an evening cookout on the field
Saturday after any flyoff rounds. Five bucks will get you the following

Either BBQ Chicken Sandwich, Cheeseburger, Garden Burger, or Polish Sausage
Either Green Salad, Potato Salad, plus Carrot and Celery Sticks
Apple Pie, Berry Pie, Cookies, Watermelon
Iced Tea, Unsweetened Lemonade

We hope that most in attendance will take advantage of this social gathering
rather than going "into town"
to a fast food or sit down restaurant. Obviously, we expect the weather to

The takeoff pond for R.O.W. events will be back in action again after
missing last year's event.
We will probably be setting up the FAI line on the eastern ridge to avoid
the hazards to the West, but once again, we'll have to judge on a minute by
minute basis.

Hope to see everyone there!

Fred Terzian Co-CD and FAI Event Director

Televising Model Plane Meets
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

To all Model Plane Builders and Flyers:

If we were to televise our model airplane meets as Peter King suggests,
I'm sure the ultimate outgrowth would be "Trail Bike Model Retrieval
Racing". Can't you just see Paul Crowley racing around a track holding
a 1500 sq. in. "Satellite". Frankly, I'd put my money on Bob DeShields.
We might even consider "Senior Citizen Motor-Cross" as another event. =
We might get Ed Sneed as our TV announcer.

Thermals to all, Phil Klintworth

2002 AmCup Update
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


We have gotten several questions with regard to the "Super Max" rule. I
prefer to call it by it's oxymoron title "Limited Maximum." Putting my
prejudices aside, the SCAT club reviewed the 2002 AmCup rules and discussed
this issue at our last meeting. The out come is there will be no rule
changes for this issue. The applicable portions are:

1) Designated contests must be flown in accordance with the provisions of the
FAI Sporting Code and as follows:

a) F1A, B and C Contests must be a minimum of 7 rounds plus flyoffs if
required. First round max duration should require the current extended
flight times as stated in the FAI Sporting Code.

The key word here phrase is "should." The AmCup recommends conducting AmCup
contest as close to the FAI rules as possible. We prefer the Super Max 1st
round times to be used.

However, a Club / CD may deviate from the FAI rules (i.e., new Super Max
rule) if they pre-advertise the changes per the FAI regulations. The FAI
regulations apply to World Cup and Continental Contests and require an
approval for these deviations. The AmCup is not requiring this approval from
either the FAI or AmCup officials for non-World Cup contests. We expect that
our World Cup competitions, MaxMen and Sierra Cup and the Canadian Contests
will obtain the FAI approval should they wish to deviate from the FAI rules.

Thermals, Jim Parker This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Priest Comment
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

THe reference to Catholic Priests being child molesters is completly
uncalled for.This does not belong in this SCAT!!I must guess this man is a
prodastant,or an Athiest.He cannot be a God fearing person.He only shows his
lack of knowledge.Less than 1% of Priests have been accused of this
crime.Over half of thouse accused have been proven false,made by persons
with an axe to grind for some odd reason.I will pray for him.

[I would ask people to keep in mind the beliefs and customs of others ..
this subject is closed]

Wright Stuff
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Just a few comments about the Science Olympiad "Wright Stuff" event. The
Cloudbusters, The Cleveland free flight group and the Western New York free
flight group have been actively involved in this event for about four or more
years. We offer assistance and advice to coaches and students through
orientations and building workshops. We offer them flying time in our gyms.
Some of us even officiate at regional and state tournaments. We offer the
event at our three major indoor contests at Flint, MI, at Kent State
University field house and at the Buffalo Bills' practice facility. The
students come in contact with a variety of events and meet a number really
good adult competitors.
I am not saying that we have hooked most of these kids on our hobby. However,
it has been most rewarding for us to see many of them grow into proficient
builders and competitors as we work with them from Jr. High through Sr. High
Our efforts are not unique as I know that any number of clubs are involved
with this event as we are. It certainly has more promise as a way to get
juniors involved than the build and fly sessions with AMA cubs. It is a good
first step toward building a limited penny plane.
This is just some information on working with juniors. I don't intend for
you to print it.
Don Lang

[ Don I think it is important to print such articles as yours
as it may give others ideas on how they might help futher free flight]

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


We read with interest the fine essays, revelations, anecdotes and
admonitions regarding the development and promotion of not just free
flight but model aviation in general - saving it from oblivion. It might
be good to remind here that the National Free Flight Society has now
been involved in a new "expansionary" theme (for over a year) that
accommodates most of the recently voiced laments seen on the SEN. The
NFFS is developing quite an intricate set of plans, committees and
systems that will all be coordinated to achieve model aviation's
justified vitality. These efforts cover broad perspectives of the
situation and enable a rather spectacular vision of what can be done.
Talking is one thing, doing is another. The work the NFFS is undertaking
necessitates enormous energies. Much has already been accomplished by a
few but so much more needs attention. You might please consider getting
aligned personally with the great course the NFFS has instituted. The
NFFS, with its organization, its history, its publications and with its
political alliances needs your participation and assistance to
accomplish these worthwhile goals.

Daniel J. Tracy
NFFS Planning & Operations


I had heard that the NFFS has something a foot - when will the details be
revealed ? How can we follow that yellow brick road ?
I was interested [and suprised !] to learn of a well received
presentation given by an American at the CIAM meeting of plans to
teach youngsters to build model airplanes. This is an aspect of the CIAM
that appears to not have been reported by either yourself, Mr Kaynes or
the omnisient Mr Segrave! .. sorry about that Mike , inspite of
best intentions abouve I could not resist a> a little politiking and
b> some CIAM speak.]

" how do you help?"
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

An anonymous message (was it from Roger?) at the beginning of SEN 694
praised a bunch of guys who are our there helping promote free flight,
especially among youngsters, ending with the question:

" how do you help?"

I've been active in the Rochester, NY, area Science Olympiad/Wright
Stuff scene for the past seven years or so, acting both as a mentor to
high school kids as well as co-CD of the Rochester regional high school
Wright Stuff event. I co-directed the NY state meet at West Point about
four years ago, and will be co-directing the National high school Wright
Stuff event at the University of Delaware in May. From time to time I
host dads and their sons in my basement shop where I share some of my
expertise and we shop talk about models and related subjects.

For many years I've maintained a free flight resource list, a sort of
abridged version of Carlo Godel's Cottage Wings list. I've handed,
e-mailed, and snail-mailed copies of this list, which I try hard to keep
updated, to anyone- young or old- who shows interested in it. It has a
key vendor list, complete with brief descriptions of the wares of each,
plus catalog prices, snail and e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and web
sites where applicable. In addition, there's a basic glossary of free
flight terms and a short list of key FF-related web sites. There's now a
shorter version of this list dedicated to Wright Stuff information, as
I've seen from the get-go that ignorance was one of the biggest barriers
to students and coaches involved with this event.

By the way, anyone wanting to see a copy of either or both of these
lists can let me know and I'll be happy to send them a copy. You can
reach me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I've given indoor flight demonstrations at grade schools, Scout
meetings, and the Rochester Museum and Science Center. I've never tired
of seeing the awe and enjoyment of my audiences as they see, most for
the first time, my little stick-and-tissue models float overhead for
several minutes. At the competitive level, I've seen to it that both
middle school and senior high Wright Stuff events were added to our
Empire State Indoor Championship meet held in the Buffalo Bills

I mention all these things not to pat myself on the back but rather to
bring home the point that those of us active in the hobby CAN make a
difference where the future of free flight is concerned. In many ways we
are our own worst enemy, wringing our hands over the lack of newcomers
and grimly predicting the end of free flight while doing little or
nothing to promote or simply expose free flight to the general public.
It is from this great amorphous mass that our successors will come, some
young, some old. But no one will come if we keep trying so hard to
remain invisible and uninvolved outside of our own immediate modeling

Bob Clemens
Rochester, NY

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

> Let's go for drama, not just the hunky guys..... I couldn't agree more
> Michael. ..........and rather resembling a Mafia hitman'.
> .......??? ... Who, Me? ...

Gee thanks!! Now, in that case .....can I take this opportunity to bring my
services to your notice?


We provide an excelent service to aeromodelers. Are you always getting
beaten in the fly off?
We will undertake to solve the problem for you. Try our well proven service
to get ahead of your opposition.


Option One.
For making the opposition offers they can't refuse $1,500 per competitor per
(Good value at only the cost of a new F1C/B/A model and far more cost
effective !!)

Delux Option. (For the rich and seriously minded world FF traveller)
Arranging a 'HIT MAN' to permanently take out the opposition.
One off payment of $10,000 per hit. (Easy Terms available)

Apply (By appointment only), to Don 'Corleone' King.

Total discretion guaranteed. We have the FAI, CIA, FBI, the Russian and
Marseilles Mafias and most other organisations 'in our pockets'!

Once you take up an offer, you will be considered as having received a favour
from the 'Family'. We reserve the right to call in any favors received at
any time on pain of death. ;-))))))))))))
> Seriously though! Bob Norton has a good point which I can confirm.
> Nearly everyone I tell about my crazy FF activities show great interest and
> often ask if they can come to a comp to see, one day. They tend to be
> amazed that such a thing exists and when I have finished telling them of
> the exitement at a big Fly Off, they are quite fascinated. I also get kids
> asking the same kind of questions. as most of us do when our activity is
> displayed in public on those kind of rare occasions. Imagine if they were
> to suddenly confronted with the dawn shoot out for a WC F1C fly off.
> Screaming 35,000 rpm motors will make mountain bikes look tame!! ;-)))
> Peter King
> PS I whole heartedly join with M. Warren in congratulating and thanking
> Roger for his fabulous services to the FF community, world wide. Long
> may SEN etc continue.

Roger, publish the above advert, if you dare !! ;-)))))


Seeing we are sadly missing a recent humor update from MAC the Bigot
I published your piece as a last resort...]

Second Model
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

To Bob Norton, Over the past 30 years, I and my group have given uncounted
seminars and building sessions using first Delta Darts then Canarsie Canaries
(plans in MA) and although the kids were fascinated, only 2 kids in all those
years ever came back to build a second model. It's kind of discouraging but I
think it's also true--Don Ross

Roger Morrell